GT vs. EB high performance for city driving

[dn1984]

My $53 BMW was a turbo... guess you don't understand it is not about money, or affordability. I find it sad though, the 5.0 owners don't drop a $6k charger on their cars, so they can have some low end torque like a vette and other forced inducted cars.

amiright?

your bmw also has almost the same engine as the M variant, and will be as fast or faster with a tune. but when you can choose between the V8 and 4 cylinder, why choose the 4 cylinder? that's like choosing the 330i over the 340i. i don't understand all this talk about low end power. i didn't see any stock ecoboosts at the drag strip cutting 1.9 60fts

Sponsored

 

[dn1984]

now, once the hpp gets out there more, it will be interesting to see how it runs. but remember, with a bigger turbo comes more lag, and that affects your "part throttle" thesis as well

 

[w3rkn]

your bmw also has almost the same engine as the M variant, and will be as fast or faster with a tune. but when you can choose between the V8 and 4 cylinder, why choose the 4 cylinder? that's like choosing the 330i over the 340i. i don't understand all this talk about low end power. i didn't see any stock ecoboosts at the drag strip cutting 1.9 60fts

You are making it sound as if all v8 behave the same. They don't.

I like torquey cars, like my BMW and my Corvette. Now I am getting a HPP because with a simple tune, it will easily outhandle, out brake, our maneuver and out accelerate an equivalent manual five-o.

If you are driving an auto, why would you even care what engine is in your car, you don't get to use a clutch, so...

 

[w3rkn]

now, once the hpp gets out there more, it will be interesting to see how it runs. but remember, with a bigger turbo comes more lag, and that affects your "part throttle" thesis as well

Hrumphs...

There is no lag in modern day twin-scroll turbos. Specially ones that are mounted on the exhaust manifold.
Not-to-mention, the Mustang HPP was tuned for more response.

 

[dn1984]

You are making it sound as if all v8 behave the same. They don't.

I like torquey cars, like my BMW and my Corvette. Now I am getting a HPP because with a simple tune, it will easily outhandle, out brake, our maneuver and out accelerate an equivalent manual five-o.

If you are driving an auto, why would you even care what engine is in your car, you don't get to use a clutch, so...

what does the transmission have to do with caring what engine is in the car? i've owned far more manuals in my life than autos, and have hated every single auto (with the exception of my DSG cars) up until this new 10 speed. i'm done with the garbage chinese MT-82 after my last coyote

 

[dn1984]

Hrumphs...

There is no lag in modern day twin-scroll turbos. Specially ones that are mounted on the exhaust manifold.
Not-to-mention, the Mustang HPP was tuned for more response.

you do know focus RS owners commonly complain about acceleration and response below 100mph right?

 

[tw557]

I SO wish this coyote was a torque monster. I would certainly own one and at least 2 other guys I know would too. My retired boss took my ecoboost for a ride one time and was somewhat impressed. So when he retired he planned to get a GTPP2, gt350, camaro ss or Hellcat. He likes to drive sporty and the Hellcat was just too much. The Camaro was just too cramped and the visibility. But he was just so shocked at the PP2 lack of torque to have fun on the street with. And the gt350 was worse. He went and drove a BMW M235 and the awesome roll on torque had him sold. Not everyone wants a screamer of a motor the coyote is. Its an awesome Race motor. But as one Gt owner recently stated. He missed the quickness of the Ecoboost he had. He loves the GT but just has to anticipate when he needs the power and downshift or get on the gas earlier.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

This takes the cake for the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum.

Sorry, not even close.

If you don't skip gears, then you 'll drive like an idiot in traffic. I don't think I've ever went 1-2-3-4-5-6 in any of my cars, ever... not once.

To do so, would imply you start off real slow and maintain that exact same acceleration while you shift though 6 gears & accelerating up to speed at the same given pace. Traffic isn't like that... so driving like that is idiotic.


1-3-5 does the same thing as 1-2-3-4-5...

 

[Silver Bullitt]

But he was just so shocked at the PP2 lack of torque to have fun on the street with.

I'm really struggling with this concept of "fun on the street". My car is an absolute blast to drive on the street. Now, maybe it's the smaller 26.2" tires on the rear which probably translates to about a 3.94 rear gear when compared to the 3.73 and 27.66" stock tires on a PP1, but I rarely find power to be lacking to make a pass or plant me back in the seat or assault a 35 mph ramp at more than twice the posted speed limit, all of which I find pretty damn fun. I had an '18 Ecoboost A10 rental in Florida for 10 days that I drove nearly 1,000 miles from Tampa down to South Palm Beach over to the Naples area and back to Tampa. OK, it was a convertible, but yes, I was putting 93 octane in the tank. I just can't see the new HPP 2.3 being THAT much better. No way I'd trade the overall performance of my car for that. There's just no way. It's two completely different cars.

And, yes I've driven a cammed and slammed "torquey" V8.

 

[Balr14]

People will always find a way to rationalize their choices.

 

[millhouse]

People will always find a way to rationalize their choices.

 

[tw557]

I'm really struggling with this concept of "fun on the street". My car is an absolute blast to drive on the street. Now, maybe it's the smaller 26.2" tires on the rear which probably translates to about a 3.94 rear gear when compared to the 3.73 and 27.66" stock tires on a PP1, but I rarely find power to be lacking to make a pass or plant me back in the seat or assault a 35 mph ramp at more than twice the posted speed limit, all of which I find pretty damn fun. I had an '18 Ecoboost A10 rental in Florida for 10 days that I drove nearly 1,000 miles from Tampa down to South Palm Beach over to the Naples area and back to Tampa. OK, it was a convertible, but yes, I was putting 93 octane in the tank. I just can't see the new HPP 2.3 being THAT much better. No way I'd trade the overall performance of my car for that. There's just no way. It's two completely different cars.



And, yes I've driven a cammed and slammed "torquey" V8.

I guess I've driven too many geared low, turbo cars in my recent past. My highly tuned Audi TTS got me spoiled with such effortless pull in any gear. I got in the GT (15-16) MY and just expected to watch out when I hit the gas or I'm gonna be in the weeds. My wife was the same. She was afraid of it but then said my Infiniti is faster then that after test driving. I was just so disappointed. Yes, I first bought the ecoboost because it was cheaper and a sideways move from my higher mileage Audi that I was getting very afraid of high cost of repairs until my daughter would be out of college and I was still competitively roadracing. But after 2 years I became pretty impressed with the eco and figured its time for the GT. I sold off all my Roadrace stuff and dirtbike and had about 10000 in my pocket. I just couldn't get over the disappointing test drive of a stock GT "big" v8 being sluggish until I got it screaming after I sold off all my other toys. So the thing is I want to want a GT but in stock form its just not that thrilling cruising around. Believe me the Ecoboost has its boring parts too especially if running hard. But truth be told its pretty damn quick driving around town driving a little sporty. So I plan to get a GT in about a year when no college and I'm not worried about a warranty with a used GT I can tune and mod away. Or either maybe an 18+ A10 will make me content since I haven't driven one of those yet.

And my Boss was making fun of me saying the GT torque wasnt that great. Then he test drove one too and called me up and said he was so shocked also. He even asked them if it was in some kind of detuned transportation mode. He loved everything about the PP2 except the power and didn't want to throw the warranty out to get it tuned.

 

[tw557]

People will always find a way to rationalize their choices.

We all do that, Sure. Some will rationalize a Gt because they are going to race it. Some will so they feel good to tell others its a GT, 5.0, coyote. I'll be honest, I hate to tell someone its a 4 cyl. mustang and the look I always get. But for me the 10000 extra was tough after I test drove. I had 10000 in my pocket but figured I am gonna like this thing that much if I need to put out a little more I will. Keeping it stock I just couldn't do it. Then I was like crap I sold all my toys what do I do now. A few months later saw a nicely modded S197 that my 13 year loves and bought a whole other Mustang for 10000. I'm sure that isn't a justification that some would think is right either but for now it works for me.

 

[shogun32]

The stock V8 map is fairly lame. I could say the same thing of the factory EB map as well. Ford Perf really needs to get off their ass and release a factory-supported map for the 18+ GT. Once I put the Unleashed tune on the EB it became a "holy sh*t" car north of 4500RPM and large throttle, but more importantly the throttle response below 4 grand also improved significantly. The GT after an Unleashed tune also woke up. No, it doesn't have a 'hit' like an EB by any stretch, as that would be out of character.

I think folks who think the GT feels "slow" aren't paying close attention to just how fast they are going. The human brain has a major blind spot in the absence of 'jolts' - IOW the species perceive steady acceleration poorly. I have to routinely get out of the throttle when driving the V8s because my senses aren't yelling at me that sane speeds were left behind long since. The EB is very audible while it's thrashing about which gives sensory feedback that you're "haulin" even if you're actually not. My level 1 tuned GTI is like the V8 because it's so quiet and the torque so effortless (esp. for a 4-banger) that i had to set the overspeed chime down to 70 to make sure I stay out of jail. But like any good turbo I4, you can clearly tell the engine is "on the pipe" when passing 3000 RPM. The EB doesn't have that same change in power gradient even after the tune (except >4500 when the turbo *really* kicks in).

The other mental difficulty people have is that since the I4 is thrashing, one tends to shift at around 35-4500 when driving "sporty". On the Gen3 Coyote, 3000 RPM is where the fun is just starting and shifting at 5000 (and higher) is something one has to condition themselves to do. I ride motorcycles so have no mental block against 3000 or 3500 RPM being the floor of my operating range. I don't drive A10 so don't know how badly it interferes with keeping the V8 on the boil.


Right, but the long-gone OP was asking about 'city' driving. For that I would give the edge to the EB because you'll be under 3500RPM almost all the time and it'll *feel* faster than the GT even though it's really not.

 

[ForYourOwnGood]

The stock V8 map is fairly lame. I could say the same thing of the factory EB map as well. Ford Perf really needs to get off their ass and release a factory-supported map for the 18+ GT. Once I put the Unleashed tune on the EB it became a "holy sh*t" car north of 4500RPM and large throttle, but more importantly the throttle response below 4 grand also improved significantly. The GT after an Unleashed tune also woke up. No, it doesn't have a 'hit' like an EB by any stretch, as that would be out of character.

I think folks who think the GT feels "slow" aren't paying close attention to just how fast they are going. The human brain has a major blind spot in the absence of 'jolts' - IOW the species perceive steady acceleration poorly. I have to routinely get out of the throttle when driving the V8s because my senses aren't yelling at me that sane speeds were left behind long since. The EB is very audible while it's thrashing about which gives sensory feedback that you're "haulin" even if you're actually not. My level 1 tuned GTI is like the V8 because it's so quiet and the torque so effortless (esp. for a 4-banger) that i had to set the overspeed chime down to 70 to make sure I stay out of jail. But like any good turbo I4, you can clearly tell the engine is "on the pipe" when passing 3000 RPM. The EB doesn't have that same change in power gradient even after the tune (except >4500 when the turbo *really* kicks in).

The other mental difficulty people have is that since the I4 is thrashing, one tends to shift at around 35-4500 when driving "sporty". On the Gen3 Coyote, 3000 RPM is where the fun is just starting and shifting at 5000 (and higher) is something one has to condition themselves to do. I ride motorcycles so have no mental block against 3000 or 3500 RPM being the floor of my operating range. I don't drive A10 so don't know how badly it interferes with keeping the V8 on the boil.


Right, but the long-gone OP was asking about 'city' driving. For that I would give the edge to the EB because you'll be under 3500RPM almost all the time and it'll *feel* faster than the GT even though it's really not.

This is what I said earlier in less words. You don't ride that big torque burst, its smooth acceleration. Hell my 145hp Malibu "feels" like it takes off like a rocket, but its just sensory perception of the soft suspension transferring the weight to the back and a super short 1st gear. Look down and that "rocket" is going 32mph. Perception is not always reality in these cases.

Sponsored