A look at the R2650 and how the Predator stacks up to the competition

[V00D00]

Maybe, but let me ask you this: what do you think the blockers are for __not__ winding up with a HP number in the 755-785 range?

Is the platform incapable? Seems like the people who've analyzed the blower specs, engine RPM, etc., think it's pretty doable. Of course you have to factor in warranty/durability, so clearly there's a what-can-it-do reliably consideration.

What about the "need" for Ford to exceed expectations and [most] of the competition - that seems like that would really drive the engineering side, even if it meant (like we've seen) some delays, slower rollout, and if the hardware is capabable, why with that incentive wouldn't Ford at come to market with a HP figure bigger - or matching - than: ZL1/Z06/ZR1, and even the "regular" Hellcat for that matter.

Remember the whole bit with the digital dash reveal and the industry thinking Ford might've slipped in an easter egg of the HP target for the GT500?

I think since day one they've been targeting mid-700s, and all the final tweaking is a little HP bump, but really dialing in the tuning, in combination with the DCT, controls modes and whatnot.

I mean, it's going to be a badass vehicle, but I just can't imagine showing up at the table with something like 720, just a 58HP bump over the previous GT500 ...

Im betting on that, they've done it before, and those #s done line up with anything else.

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[MaskedRacerX]

-Emissions
-Transmission Durability
-Warranty


The hard parts in place (aside from the trans)? No, a 5.2L with high 7000rpm's and that 2.65L spinning 20,000rpm on e85 or race fuel will throw down 900rwhp without much trouble.

-Won't meet emissions.
-Trans won't last.
-No warranty.
-Won't make that power for more than 7-8sec during a hero dyno run.

You can make all sorts of things happen when you can cut the above list loose. All things the aftermarket doesn't take into consideration.

Yeah, I identified those are legitimate concerns in my original post, I never use anything being done in the aftermarket as comparison to OEM power (that's designed for a warrantied xx,xxx miles, pump gas, emissions compliance, etc.) Not sure why the conversation steered towards aftermarket capability[?]

Anyway, this that you said:

Because they will sell every car they want to make and still have demand while not having to take the above risks.

That's the real counterpoint - the critical business concerns, where there's a sliding scale of reliability in the real world (and potential costs to Ford) vs. the bragging rights vs. the market viability. I'd agree they have the last one in the bad without pushing the first point ... unless that middle point gets the best of them

 

[Ninjak]

I feel they can hit the 772 CRANK. It can be done easily with the new tech in this engine and be safe. Question is will they ? It has been said in other threads that the show cars were already north of 740...squeezing it to 755 (what I think it will be) should not be hard at all with more tuning. Also I believe that Ford is not going all out. They always leave some on the table for the aftermarket. No matter the platform.

 

[Darkane]

I feel they can hit the 772 CRANK. It can be done easily with the new tech in this engine and be safe. Question is will they ? It has been said in other threads that the show cars were already north of 740...squeezing it to 755 (what I think it will be) should not be hard at all with more tuning. Also I believe that Ford is not going all out. They always leave some on the table for the aftermarket. No matter the platform.

Can you identify the new Tech??

The top end is the previous generation coyote/voodoo, not the current gen three.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

That blower in that car is 1000hp capable no problem. Hell the tiny little blow in my car is 900 capable. Im guessing there is an easy 200hp left on the table for the tuners and aftermarket.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Can you identify the new Tech??

 

[Timeless]

Are you buying one?

Not sure how my opinion on marketing is relative to whether I am buying one or not.

The reality is that anything near 755 is fantastic and great for the car world. However for those number obsessed beating the 755 of another halo car would be a big statement.

 

[V00D00]

Not sure how my opinion on marketing is relative to whether I am buying one or not.

The reality is that anything near 755 is fantastic and great for the car world. However for those number obsessed beating the 755 of another halo car would be a big statement.

its 100% relative. either your in the target demographic and a potential customer, in which case you have a valid opinion on how its marketed, or you are not and do not

nobody cares how a 747 is marketed , because few are buying it

 

[sqidd]

its 100% relative. either your in the target demographic and a potential customer, in which case you have a valid opinion on how its marketed, or you are not and do not

 

[sqidd]

The reality is that anything near 755 is fantastic and great for the car world. However for those number obsessed beating the 755 of another halo car would be a big statement.

Fords statement will be "We sold ever single car we built at retail or over".

 

[Dominator961]

Maybe, but let me ask you this: what do you think the blockers are for __not__ winding up with a HP number in the 755-785 range?

Is the platform incapable? Seems like the people who've analyzed the blower specs, engine RPM, etc., think it's pretty doable. Of course you have to factor in warranty/durability, so clearly there's a what-can-it-do reliably consideration.

What about the "need" for Ford to exceed expectations and [most] of the competition - that seems like that would really drive the engineering side, even if it meant (like we've seen) some delays, slower rollout, and if the hardware is capabable, why with that incentive wouldn't Ford at come to market with a HP figure bigger - or matching - than: ZL1/Z06/ZR1, and even the "regular" Hellcat for that matter.

Remember the whole bit with the digital dash reveal and the industry thinking Ford might've slipped in an easter egg of the HP target for the GT500?

I think since day one they've been targeting mid-700s, and all the final tweaking is a little HP bump, but really dialing in the tuning, in combination with the DCT, controls modes and whatnot.

I mean, it's going to be a badass vehicle, but I just can't imagine showing up at the table with something like 720, just a 58HP bump over the previous GT500 ...

 

[V00D00]

what are you saying here? I know the bottom, not the top

 

[sqidd]

These don't make any sense. They're probably renderings.

At 2600rpm in 7th gear the car is going 116mph.

.50 trans ratio/3.73 rear end/28" tall tire.

 

[200MPHCOBRA]

-Emissions
-Transmission Durability
-Warranty


The hard parts in place (aside from the trans)? No, a 5.2L with high 7000rpm's and that 2.65L spinning 20,000rpm on e85 or race fuel will throw down 900rwhp without much trouble.

-Won't meet emissions.
-Trans won't last.
-No warranty.
-Won't make that power for more than 7-8sec during a hero dyno run.

You can make all sorts of things happen when you can cut the above list loose. All things the aftermarket doesn't take into consideration.



Because they will sell every car they want to make and still have demand while not having to take the above risks.

My guess is 730-740cshp. My "guess" is more calculation based on experience, being a realist and having access to knowledge most don't have, than guess.

And you know what? With DCT and 3.73's the car is going to be stupid fast/capable. It will be light-years beyond the driving skills of 98% of people that get them. 20hp here or 20hp there won't matter a bit unless that persons only priority is racing dyno numbers on the internet. I spent 10yrs as a professional Superbike racer. Lap records, 7 championships and I really don't know how many wins/podiums. I lost count. This is on a vehicle that makes 190-210rwhp and weighs 375lb (1.875lb/hp) with a rear contact patch the size of you hand. A tiny bit too much throttle exiting a corner and you launch yourself into orbit. Then break bones when you land. I've gone down at 198mph, 186mph, 168mph and lost count of how many times between 100-150mph. And guess what, I'm a little nervous about wheeling the GT500 around the track. It's only 5lb/hp, not even close to the power to weight of a Superbike. And it has MASSIVE contact patches. It also has a roll bar (mine will), 5pt belts, Hans device....a car around you. Even with all that, It certainly has my respect. It should be terrifying to most people. I know it will take me some time to get to where I can push the car at 95%. How hard can you average track day guy push? 40%? 50%? If that? So what do they need 20hp more for? What they need is about $10,000 in driving schools about 20 track days and $20,000 in tires to hone their skills. Then maybe they will be able to extract 75% out of the car in stone stock trim. After 4-5yrs of that maybe, if they have some natural talent, they can push the car above 90%.

I don't care what power it makes (within reason of course). What I care about is the overall package, it's capabilities and consistency. Cooling, brakes and brake cooling, suspension performance, balance, the ability to adjust the suspension, etc. For what this car was designed for those are the top priorities. If someone is looking for big dick internet numbers to brag about and the ability to rip off a 1/4mi time they're buying the wrong car. Get a GT with a A10 and chuck a blower and suspension at it. It will be everything they want, and about half the money. Right tool for the job and all that.

How do you survive falls at those speeds, not to mention the destroyed bikes I'm sure, not doubting, just genuinely curious.

 

[sqidd]

Lots of safety gear. And 99% of roadrace tracks where bikes run at there is nothing to hit. You can get hurt though. I've shattered a hip, taken two TBI's and have blown both of my shoulders up multiple times. You don't get off scott free. I was actually not much of a "crasher". I know guys that have broken everything, a few in wheel chairs and a few that are dead.

And yes, bikes get written off all the time. A crash can cost you $5,000 or $100,000.

Here is MM93 (best rider in the world, maybe the best of all time) going down at 209mph. He raced the next day. His only injury was some gravel rash to his jaw. Before you ask "how did he crash there?". The track was damp/wet and when you come up over that hill at Mugello there is no weight on the suspension. And well, 209mph. Good thing he wasn't going the 221mph that he was going a few moments earlier.

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