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Ohlins' Adjustable Coil-Over Kits Are In Stock At J&M / hotpart.com

shogun32

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There's reasons for the the very high front wheel rate vs the rear that are more apparent now than they were. ... The front motion ratio for any spring or coilover will be the same regardless of brand.
Sure thing. Does nobody have the front geometry numbers?
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BmacIL

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shogun32

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It's approx 0.95
Are you suggesting that say the Steeda dual-rate spring of ~220lb/in (38.5N/mm) in order to achieve the same 19mm droop as this Ohlins system, that the Steeda spring is under nearly 48.8mm (~2 inches) of preload? Yikes!

Or is it more likely the that spring mounts of a traditional system put the spring at a different angle than a coil-over system?

38.5 * (P+D) = 90 * (10+19)
P+D =67.8mm
D=19
P = 67.8-19=48.8
 

BmacIL

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Are you suggesting that say the Steeda dual-rate spring of ~220lb/in (38.5N/mm) in order to achieve the same 19mm droop as this Ohlins system, that the Steeda spring is under nearly 48.8mm (~2 inches) of preload? Yikes!

Or is it more likely the that spring mounts of a traditional system put the spring at a different angle than a coil-over system?

38.5 * (P+D) = 90 * (10+19)
P+D =67.8mm
D=19
P = 67.8-19=48.8
You're overthinking this. The Steeda dual rate spring has a totally different free height compared to the Ohlins coilover spring, and is designed to have most of the 220 lb/in portion compressed at ride height (think of it as a built-in helper spring). Additional spring compression goes into the 350 lb/in range. The traditional strut and coilover have the same mounting points at the knuckle and strut tower, thus the same motion ratio. The motion ratio has some change and migration through the suspension sweep, but that would also be the same for both traditional and coilover.
 

shogun32

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My citation of the Steeda dual-rate was a poor choice. Assume a linear spring of the same rate. If the traditional spring mount is co-axial with the damper (aka strut) the math still holds does it not?
 

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BmacIL

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My citation of the Steeda dual-rate was a poor choice. Assume a linear spring of the same rate. If the traditional spring mount is co-axial with the damper (aka strut) the math still holds does it not?
Yes. That's not a particularly high amount of preload for a strut, though. The factory springs have far more (I never measured but I'd guess closer to 3.5-4"). On a stock-style strut, the minimum free height to always have at least some preload under full droop is 10".
 

Norm Peterson

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Yes. That's not a particularly high amount of preload for a strut, though. The factory springs have far more (I never measured but I'd guess closer to 3.5-4"). On a stock-style strut, the minimum free height to always have at least some preload under full droop is 10".
This is what was on my mind earlier. 19mm and 10mm looked a lot more like amounts of lowering than anything else.


shogun - as to the PP2 comment (where you get things not otherwise available), I was responding directly to one of your paragraphs.

The first sentence in this one ↓↓↓
I wish I had spent more time on reading forums before buying the '19 GT+PP 2 weeks ago (my first "performance" 4 wheeler) or I would have bought a base model and had the 3 grand ready and waiting. Haste makes waste! MC guys don't bat an eye spending $800-1000 per end on suspension so I find it rather strange that car guys seem to be so unwilling to pay not unreasonable coin on suspension that actually works as opposed to cheap knock offs or half-baked compromises.

[separate item, not quoted]
And I'm sure that Ford has quantified all of those unique PP2 tunings. Just because we aren't privy to the nitty-gritty details of what they did doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

But if it matters, I don't particularly care about having electronics and somebody else's programming getting involved with basic control functions. You're stuck with what somebody else chose for the benefit of all those people who are "not-you", and you probably won't even know what all the things are that you've been stuck with. There's at least two items involved with Ford's EPAS that don't get talked about much.


Norm
 

shogun32

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There's a space between 'gt+pp' and '2' weeks ago. Or does PP somehow mean PP2 and not PP1 if it's not qualified?
Yes I've had the car two weeks.

My point about quantifying EPAS et. al. is that Ford does publish relative change information on other aspects of the kit (eg. 6% stiffer roll bar) so they should have no qualms specifying the other things they did. Otherwise the consumer doesn't know what they dicked with and to what degree and whether or not they want more or less of the same because even if they were to drive a stock GT and a PP back to back the difference may not be readily discernible but appreciated/despised nonetheless. The changes hardly qualify as industrial secrets IMO.
 

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The PP gets more aggressive (read: lenient or handling focused) ABS and EPAS calibrations. The PP2 more so. One of the things Billy Johnson raved about with the 2019 changes to the GT350 was the ABS calibration.
 

Norm Peterson

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There's a space between 'gt+pp' and '2' weeks ago. Or does PP somehow mean PP2 and not PP1 if it's not qualified?
Yes I've had the car two weeks.

My point about quantifying EPAS et. al. is that Ford does publish relative change information on other aspects of the kit (eg. 6% stiffer roll bar) so they should have no qualms specifying the other things they did. The changes hardly qualify as industrial secrets IMO.
Actually, Ford probably does consider their AdvanceTrak, EPAS, and ABS tuning to be proprietary information. Never mind the difficulty of quantifying it in terms that a consumer with average (or even above-average) intelligence might actually understand. Hell, I'd bet that half of all Ford sales people don't even understand sta-bar stiffness well enough to do any more than parrot what's in the sales literature.


Otherwise the consumer doesn't know what they dicked with and to what degree and whether or not they want more or less of the same because even if they were to drive a stock GT and a PP back to back the difference may not be readily discernible but appreciated/despised nonetheless.
Exactly. Which is a big part of why I don't care for most of these active driver assistances in the first place. Don't know what I'm getting, or how conservatively their tunings are, how much of the car's ultimate performance potential is being denied to me. Though ABS at least prevents the flatspotting of expensive tires.


For a brand-new Mustang GT on an S550-specific site, I'm afraid that "PP 2" in the suspension section is all but guaranteed to be read as "PP2" by many people (especially when a proportional font is being used). It's kind of too bad the vehicle listed under your avatar pic hadn't been updated earlier, because that would have avoided this confusion.


Norm
 

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guitrflip

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Sorry to revive this thread, I read throughout it during my free time at work and i noticed the thread was about the Ohlins coilver but got side-tracked by people arguing about mustang trims.

I'd like to revive this and ask people's experience with either:
https://hotpart.com/product/jm-prod...coil-over-kit-custom-spring-rates-front-rear/
Or
https://hotpart.com/product/ohlins-road-track-adjustable-coil-kit-front-rear/

I'm the type of person to buy once and stay with the brand. My car is my daily, but I do 2-4 times a week of canyon running around my area in SoCal due to CoVid (why not since all bars are closed). I was thinking of biting the bullet on the KW V3s, but i kept hearing about how Ohlins are amazing, but there are no actual testimonies of what makes them different from KW V3s (at least I haven't found anything if there are, then i apologize).

Kindly advise.

-Jason
 

shogun32

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I think you want to reach out to @Hotpart.com directly. the more expensive of the 2 has you choose spring rates and I would assume they disassemble the off-the-shelf shock and revalve it for spring rate. Hence the $100/corner fee for the work and materials. I would pick Ohlins over KW if you're not going to go hogwild and spring for MCS or JRi.
 

guitrflip

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I think you want to reach out to @Hotpart.com directly. the more expensive of the 2 has you choose spring rates and I would assume they disassemble the off-the-shelf shock and revalve it for spring rate. Hence the $100/corner fee for the work and materials. I would pick Ohlins over KW if you're not going to go hogwild and spring for MCS or JRi.
Right. I was leaning towards the off-the-shelf due to price but at the same time I'm curious to know if there's any valuable experience of members here that have the kit and experience of it being stiff but remain tolerable at the city streets. I'm pretty sure Ohlins have done their research as to why they chose their spring rates.
Since there aren't any bad review specifically about the off-the-shelf, can this be considered as 'No news' as good news? Would the car still feel like it can be driven in the streets or will it only be a track-car? Just a few questions of an enthusiast that lurks the forums on his free time. I mean the front being ~514 lbs/in(front) and ~800 lbs/in (rear) off-the-shelf is baffling to me, but I'm no suspension expert. What I'd like to know is how does the car feel with that setup. (I have heard from other threads that these high spring rates are used in the territory of HPDE / AutoCrossing / Competition-related events). There have been mentions low speeds versus high speed surperiority response of the strut / shock of Ohlins thus they can accommodate to higher spring rate setups.
From what I've read on other suspension-related threads I've self concluded the sweet spot of street-drivability that i'm looking for is about maximum spring setup is 325lb/in (front) and 900lb/in (rear). And anything 350+lb/in front and 950+lb/in rear is track-car only territory.

Kindly share your wisdoms with this humble self.

-Jason
 

shogun32

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I mean the front being ~514 lbs/in(front) and ~800 lbs/in (rear) off-the-shelf is baffling to me
agreed. Hotpart recommends high-200's or low 300's I believe. I have 225/350 dual-rate (Steeda) and wouldn't dream of running 500's on the front. The 350 is already an acquired taste. I have some 250 and 275lb/in springs that I may put on instead at some point.

800 out back seems a bit soft but not too crazy. Controlling for excessive sag on rearward weight-shift can be done with slow-speed compression circuit (to a point).
 

guitrflip

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agreed. Hotpart recommends high-200's or low 300's I believe. I have 225/350 dual-rate (Steeda) and wouldn't dream of running 500's on the front. The 350 is already an acquired taste. I have some 250 and 275lb/in springs that I may put on instead at some point.

800 out back seems a bit soft but not too crazy. Controlling for excessive sag on rearward weight-shift can be done with slow-speed compression circuit (to a point).
Right usually the rear is some of the enthusiasts here have mentioned 350+ lb/in front has to be countered 1100+lb/in on the rear (that's almost x3+ compared to the front!).

Back to my purpose of reviving this old thread, does the Struts/shocks of Ohlin really accommodate to these high spring rates? If so, are we talking race-track only territory now? I am considering progressive springs, but it defeats the purpose of predictability for me (unless by some miracle i master the feeling of the min. spring and max. spring of a progressive spring rate (sounds like an anime/initial D territory).

Thank you for sharing your setup, youre definitely making me reconsider. Is your car your DD?
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