17 GT350 Recommended Road Course Alignment (Possible without CC Plates?)

[bellwilliam]

with PSS, I think -3 is probably good enough for track. good compromise.

it sounds like you are pushing the car pretty hard.

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[petstang]

with PSS, I think -3 is probably good enough for track. good compromise.

it sounds like you are pushing the car pretty hard.

Thanks for the info. Pushing as hard as I can but far, far away from where I want to be, still a lot to learn. But this car is so much fun on the track and learning more at every new event.

Posting my current alignment settings. Apart from maxing out the camber, do you see any other parameter, caster or toe that are off to your opinion ? Thanks for the feedback.

 

[ShiftPoint]

Thanks for the info. Pushing as hard as I can but far, far away from where I want to be, still a lot to learn. But this car is so much fun on the track and learning more at every new event.

Posting my current alignment settings. Apart from maxing out the camber, do you see any other parameter, caster or toe that are off to your opinion? Thanks for the feedback.

I would be curious everyone thoughts, but Vorshlag has a big write up on the S550 and recommending near 0 total front toe. Yours is within spec but just what they were preaching for better tire wear.

I wanted slight toe-in up front and then when maxing out the CC plates it should put toe near 0 or slight toe out. However, the shop didn't do that and I started with a slight toe out to begin with.

What are your thoughts on the front toe? Mines back at the shop for another alignment Friday since the rear toe adjusters worked loose/weren't torqued properly.

 

[Zitrosounds]

I would be curious everyone thoughts, but Vorshlag has a big write up on the S550 and recommending near 0 total front toe. Yours is within spec but just what they were preaching for better tire wear.

I wanted slight toe-in up front and then when maxing out the CC plates it should put toe near 0 or slight toe out. However, the shop didn't do that and I started with a slight toe out to begin with.

What are your thoughts on the front toe? Mines back at the shop for another alignment Friday since the rear toe adjusters worked loose/weren't torqued properly.

Toe is the biggest factor in tire wear. Stick to the recommended settings. Toe settings are not so straight forward. Tire, contact patch, bushing deflection all have an effect on dynamic toe vs static.

 

[petstang]

Regarding Toe settings, my shop followed the exact specs that are in the GT350/R specific booklet. They recommended to take the R Toe settings.

 

[AC53]

I'd give strong consideration to following Vorshlag's recommendations. They used to sponsor a car of mine that took two National titles. One in TimeAttack and one in Autoslalom, both venues that reward proper suspension settings more than most.

They're good folks to talk to if you want some specific information, if they aren't out competing.

 

[firestarter2]

So whats the final conclusion as much camber as possible with the R alignment for toe and caster?

 

[nordique14]

Just got an alignment today on my GT350. Specs are below. I installed the BMR CB005 Cradle Lockout Kit and the BMR FC003 camber bolts. So an alignment was required. I was able to get -2.5* up front. Gained and additional -1.4* with the camber bolts.

Note that the tire is now very close to the strut. I am running 11" wheels up front but with the original 295 MPSS tires. The 295 are a little stretched and I will go to 305 when I have to replace them. I suspect they will not rub, but just barely.

Interestingly, the car is new and the toe on the right front wheel was off. Might be worth it to not trust the factory and get a proper alignment.

 

[ShiftPoint]

Thanks for all the recommendations on here guys! [MENTION=31354]bellwilliam[/MENTION] advice was spot on. I have ran two tracks days so far. Putnam Park Road Course (1:15.7) and Mid Ohio (1:40) and I'm thrilled with the wear on the stock tires (MPSS) and take off slicks.

Quick overview. Front, Vorslag CC plates maxed to the point of touching the strut tower circle. Toe probably slight toe out. At stock alignment or the least camber on the vorslag plates (i think its around -1) I had the shop set toe to 0 (not positive or negative), in hopes it would slight toe out when maxing the camber at the track. Rear, max camber. The hunter alignment machine readout is -3 degrees, but I thought max was -2ish? I did install the steeda adjusters in the rear but that shouldn't add more camber just make it easier to adjust. Rear toe is set at -0.30 (total toe in).

Have been driving to and from the track with the rear set as i mentioned above and just maxing the front camber at the track quickly.

At Mid Ohio on Monday, I had a chance to use the pyrometer to check temps. Started on the inside, then middle and finally the outside. Fronts and rears read about 124 degrees inside, middle and about 2 degrees more on the outside (126ish).

Correct me if I'm wrong but the temps are not the import part. Its the fact that for the most part they are wearing pretty even. Slightly hotter on the outside so it does, in fact, need a bit more camber all the way around but pretty damn close for me. I don't want to modify the strut towers up front or drill out the rear to get more camber. Also, this information is solely dependent on how hard you drive the car. Keep it modest and you probably don't need to be this aggressive with the alignments. However, I have about 6 years of these types of events under my belt. So many better drivers than me but I push pretty hard and try not to leave much on the table. I was running with the advanced groups all of which allow passing anywhere on track with a point by. So much fun in this car with slicks!

Im happy for now. Gonna run a bunch events as is and let you know at the end of the year how the tires wear with a larger data set and more experience (me getting better hopefully)

Keep in mind the temps were taken from my Pirelli Pzero DH compound take off slicks. Visually they do seem to wearing fairly even. They were already worn a good bit on the outside when I got them so I rotated them on the rims before Mid Ohio.

Video coming soon for Mid Ohio. Not sure if I mentioned this but at my last event the rear toe adjusters I think came loose or were not torqued correctly. They moved on my last session pushing with the slicks. The shop fixed the rear alignment, no charge. However I highly recommend taking some paint / or fingernail polish and marking them so in the event they do move, you can put them back at the track quickly.

I had some "clunking" coming from the rear at Mid Ohio which I think the camber adjusters came loose and was causing them to shift. I torqued them down again after the session and it went away. Moral of the story is if you get a shop to do the alignment, I know they will fix it most likely without charging you but it could hinder your day at the track. Just jack up the car, mark camber and toe (rear) that way if you have to fix you can do it quickly at the track. Two ratching 18mm wrenches are perfect for the rear camber adjusters. At least with the steeda ones not sure about the factory bolt / nut.

 

[BillyJRacing]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the temps are not the import part. Its the fact that for the most part they are wearing pretty even. Slightly hotter on the outside so it does, in fact, need a bit more camber all the way around but pretty damn close for me. I don't want to modify the strut towers up front or drill out the rear to get more camber. Also, this information is solely dependent on how hard you drive the car. Keep it modest and you probably don't need to be this aggressive with the alignments. However, I have about 6 years of these types of events under my belt. So many better drivers than me but I push pretty hard and try not to leave much on the table. I was running with the advanced groups all of which allow passing anywhere on track with a point by. So much fun in this car with slicks!

Tire temps are as important if not more important than tire pressures, in determining what to do with your camber, alignment, and tire pressures.

If you're hotter on the outside, you need more camber. You want to shoot for 20-30*F hotter on the inside. It's important to use a PROBE-type tire pyrometer (infrared laser is useless), stick the needle all the way in to the tire at a 45* angle, and start with the OUTSIDE first, then MIDDLE, then INSIDE -and check them without doing a cooldown lap.

The OEM GT350 wheels are heavy and stiff, (the GT350R's carbon wheels are extremely light and extremely stiff), and the OEM tires are designed for the cornering loads of the GT350 chassis. The OEM track alignment settings will not kill the outer shoulder on most tracks when running OEM wheels and tires.

Changing tires to different tire that's not designed for the GT350, or changing the wheels to lighter (and softer) aftermarket wheels will likely require more and more static camber to keep the tires in check - as the aftermarket wheel, and non-stock tires flex and roll over more than stock.

At the end of the day, you'll make the most grip by maximizing the tire temp spread of YOUR setup. The only way to do that is to measure the tire temps of YOUR setup on track.

0.02

 

[Austinj427]

I'm curious to what you guys suggest on my situation.

We are looking at doing a nasa event out at UMC next month, which is about an 8 hour drive from my place. I'll probably order MM plates and a catch can today to get ready for it.

I didn't like reading that the difference between the street alignment and track alignment adjusted the toe to -.5X.

Should I align the car at -1.5 with toe at +.1 and hope it settles at 0 or -.1 with the camber maxed out? Is -1.5 too much for an 8 hour drive? Is the toe still going to be too far out?

My goal is to save tires, and pick up some speed. I won't have enough time out there to get it onto a rack and make adjustments for the track alignment.

I'm talking about the front entirely on this post. The rears I'll just set it at the R track settings if it will allow for it.

 

[rushca01]

Tire temps are as important if not more important than tire pressures, in determining what to do with your camber, alignment, and tire pressures.

If you're hotter on the outside, you need more camber. You want to shoot for 20-30*F hotter on the inside. It's important to use a PROBE-type tire pyrometer (infrared laser is useless), stick the needle all the way in to the tire at a 45* angle, and start with the OUTSIDE first, then MIDDLE, then INSIDE -and check them without doing a cooldown lap.

The OEM GT350 wheels are heavy and stiff, (the GT350R's carbon wheels are extremely light and extremely stiff), and the OEM tires are designed for the cornering loads of the GT350 chassis. The OEM track alignment settings will not kill the outer shoulder on most tracks when running OEM wheels and tires.

Changing tires to different tire that's not designed for the GT350, or changing the wheels to lighter (and softer) aftermarket wheels will likely require more and more static camber to keep the tires in check - as the aftermarket wheel, and non-stock tires flex and roll over more than stock.

At the end of the day, you'll make the most grip by maximizing the tire temp spread of YOUR setup. The only way to do that is to measure the tire temps of YOUR setup on track.

0.02

Thoughts on frogeline gs1rs (stiffness) coupled with michelin pilot sport 4s?

 

[BillyJRacing]

I'm curious to what you guys suggest on my situation.

We are looking at doing a nasa event out at UMC next month, which is about an 8 hour drive from my place. I'll probably order MM plates and a catch can today to get ready for it.

I didn't like reading that the difference between the street alignment and track alignment adjusted the toe to -.5X.

Should I align the car at -1.5 with toe at +.1 and hope it settles at 0 or -.1 with the camber maxed out? Is -1.5 too much for an 8 hour drive? Is the toe still going to be too far out?

My goal is to save tires, and pick up some speed. I won't have enough time out there to get it onto a rack and make adjustments for the track alignment.

I'm talking about the front entirely on this post. The rears I'll just set it at the R track settings if it will allow for it.

I get asked this all the time and it's honestly impossible to answer. Toe does increase inside tire wear (especially on the street) and reducing toe will reduce wear. Not having enough camber on track can lead to excess outer shoulder wear.

Depending on how many miles you drive on the street and how hard you push the car on track (and how fast you are as a driver and whether or not your driving technique is causing excess understeer and grinding off the front tires) it is impossible to generalize that X-amount of camber will give you the best tire wear.

If you're really slow on track and drive thousands of miles on the street, you may find out you wear the inside edge of the tire sooner than the outside. On the other hand, if your driving technique is not very good and you're causing your own understeer (over-slowing a corner then accelerating to an apex) and then add more steering input than what's needed, you can easily kill the outer edge of the tire. As I said before, if you put on stickier tires and lighter/softer wheels, and then you'll find you need A LOT of camber to save the outer shoulders.

I think the OEM track alignment settings are a good place to start on OEM tires and wheels. If you change either of them, you really should start checking your tire temps to determine how much camber is needed for your setup. I'm not sure if that helps you at all, but it's a more difficult question to answer than most would believe.

Thoughts on frogeline gs1rs (stiffness) coupled with michelin pilot sport 4s?

Forgelines are great, strong wheels, but they're likely lighter (and softer) than the OEM aluminum wheels. If you pick wider ones, it's even harder to keep rigidity in the wheel -and thus will need more camber. PS4S's are similar in terms of grip to the PSS so it won't be as extreme as if you put a stickier tire on. I think someone said they were running Pirelli Slicks, which are notorious for needing a lot of camber.

Billy

 

[Austinj427]

Thanks Billy. I'll probably end up with this one as a test then to see how it does.

I've never run a car on track that has extra negative camber over stock, so I have had shoulder wear in the past.

A tire probe is probably a good place to start. I'm not sure if my driving style is effecting shoulder wear vs what a professional would do, or if it's just lack of camber. I guess I'll bring that up to some of the fast drivers around here and see if they have anything for me.

 

[Thrownaway]

Has anyone been able to achieve the OEM 350R road course alignment with out mods? I called Fordperformance they told me it can be done.

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