Road and Track Article on the PP2 - It's not a track car

[mustang5o]

I'm battling the diff temps in my '16. Switched fluid and wrapped exhaust. Depending on the track, I can get about 15-16 minutes into a session and it throws a diff temp warning. I'm trying to avoid spending the money on the diff cooler, mainly because I don't want to deal with having a fan, pump, lines, etc hanging out back since it's not a race car and gets street driven. If you track these cars, the diff temp issue is a real thing. I'm going to try and do some garage engineering in the off season to see what I can do to improve airflow in the area around the diff and make some better shielding.

Keep us posted. Things like this make me think I should keep the Boss.

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[millhouse]

Keep us posted. Things like this make me think I should keep the Boss.

Does your Boss have a differential temperature sensor? If not, you could be running just as hot...you just don't realize it.

 

[mustang5o]

Does your Boss have a differential temperature sensor? If not, you could be running just as hot...you just don't realize it.

No but my understanding is that the SRA cars dissipate the heat down the axles so they typically run cooler. Not that it would be a bad idea to get a cooler for it anyway. I do change the fluid regularly though as well. If I decide to get a new car I will wrap the exhaust and use better fluid (changed regularly) and eventually get a cooler. I was told by a Ford rep a cooler shouldn't void a warranty but of course running on a track is not covered under warranty.

 

[millhouse]

No but my understanding is that the SRA cars dissipate the heat down the axles so they typically run cooler. Not that it would be a bad idea to get a cooler for it anyway. I do change the fluid regularly though as well. If I decide to get a new car I will wrap the exhaust and use better fluid (changed regularly) and eventually get a cooler. I was told by a Ford rep a cooler shouldn't void a warranty but of course running on a track is not covered under warranty.

I'd be interested to see any data showing significant temperature difference between solid and independent axles and rear diff temps. Those axles and contained within a tube that would inhibit heat transfer (no significant amount of air movement). Likewise, heat is going to be added back into the system via the rear brake rotors. Regardless, without a temp sensor...you wouldn't know.

Running on a track IS covered under warranty. Running in a sanctioned event (for money or trophy) is not.

 

[jake_zx2]

I'm battling the diff temps in my '16. Switched fluid and wrapped exhaust. Depending on the track, I can get about 15-16 minutes into a session and it throws a diff temp warning. I'm trying to avoid spending the money on the diff cooler, mainly because I don't want to deal with having a fan, pump, lines, etc hanging out back since it's not a race car and gets street driven. If you track these cars, the diff temp issue is a real thing. I'm going to try and do some garage engineering in the off season to see what I can do to improve airflow in the area around the diff and make some better shielding.

That's not too bad, a full session just to get the first warning. Keep in mind, the diff has 2 separate temp warnings... first one is for basically slightly above normal operation temps, and the second one is for detrimental temps, which is when you should stop pushing it. 15-16 minutes in most cases is about a full session, so to be able to go a full session with only the first warning popping up isn't bad at all.

I've seen some people lately making head shields to go on the diff side of the exhaust. If you're that concerned about it, you could always give that a try and see how it works

 

[Hack]

No but my understanding is that the SRA cars dissipate the heat down the axles so they typically run cooler. Not that it would be a bad idea to get a cooler for it anyway. I do change the fluid regularly though as well. If I decide to get a new car I will wrap the exhaust and use better fluid (changed regularly) and eventually get a cooler. I was told by a Ford rep a cooler shouldn't void a warranty but of course running on a track is not covered under warranty.

Yes, the SRA dissipates a lot more heat than an IRS. Another advantage is a SRA contains a lot more gear oil compared to an IRS rear diff.

The disadvantage is a SRA car doesn't handle nearly as well. The IRS Mustangs are amazing by comparison. IMO it's totally worth it to get a newer Mustang and buy a rear differential cooler.

 

[mustang5o]

Yes, the SRA dissipates a lot more heat than an IRS. Another advantage is a SRA contains a lot more gear oil compared to an IRS rear diff.

The disadvantage is a SRA car doesn't handle nearly as well. The IRS Mustangs are amazing by comparison. IMO it's totally worth it to get a newer Mustang and buy a rear differential cooler.

I believe (and have seen it in person) that an SRA car can be made to handle pretty darn well on a track. I think they probably suffer more in on road ride when doing so. The fastest guys I've seen on track were driving SRA cars. At a Mustangs only track event last week the fastest GT350R was 3 seconds slower then my friends 12 Boss with Eibach springs, Koni yellows, watts link, full exhaust and E85 tune. He's still probably making a little less power the then GT350R. Most every time my friend is at a track day he's the fastest guy on the track. Seat time probably plays the biggest factor but it shows how good the S197 can be. Maybe on other tracks it would be different. We have only been to two tracks.

Still a tough decision for me. If I go all in on making the Boss an even more track capable car then I will have to keep it for a long while and I would need to work on a third vehicle for daily driving. F250s don't make the best daily drivers. The other thing is that the Boss is more of a special car. Since I have a SBY Laguna Seca the numbers are pretty low as opposed to buying a PP2 which is just another Mustang. I'm likely waiting until next year to make a decision but I like having the conversation. Somebody might say something that hasn't crossed my mind yet...

 

[Hack]

I believe (and have seen it in person) that an SRA car can be made to handle pretty darn well on a track. I think they probably suffer more in on road ride when doing so. The fastest guys I've seen on track were driving SRA cars. At a Mustangs only track event last week the fastest GT350R was 3 seconds slower then my friends 12 Boss with Eibach springs, Koni yellows, watts link, full exhaust and E85 tune. He's still probably making a little less power the then GT350R. Most every time my friend is at a track day he's the fastest guy on the track. Seat time probably plays the biggest factor but it shows how good the S197 can be. Maybe on other tracks it would be different. We have only been to two tracks.

It's all driver. Put that guy in a GT350R and he will be a lot faster than in the Boss.

Yes an SRA can handle well on a smooth track. But the road handling will be significantly compromised, and there's not much you can do to get an SRA car to handle as well on a bumpy surface as an IRS car.

If you've never driven a newer IRS Mustang on the track you will be surprised at how much better they are.

 

[c-rizzle]

It's all driver. Put that guy in a GT350R and he will be a lot faster than in the Boss.

Yes an SRA can handle well on a smooth track. But the road handling will be significantly compromised, and there's not much you can do to get an SRA car to handle as well on a bumpy surface as an IRS car.

If you've never driven a newer IRS Mustang on the track you will be surprised at how much better they are.

Exactly, tracks generally don't have pot holes, bumps mid corner, or gravel/rocks in the road that can shake things up and completely mess up traction on both wheels on a SRA!

 

[mustang5o]

It's all driver. Put that guy in a GT350R and he will be a lot faster than in the Boss.

Yes an SRA can handle well on a smooth track. But the road handling will be significantly compromised, and there's not much you can do to get an SRA car to handle as well on a bumpy surface as an IRS car.

If you've never driven a newer IRS Mustang on the track you will be surprised at how much better they are.

I actually made a similar comment this past weekend. Another guy who's a great driver recently bought a Boss 302S. The guy in the 302S ran about a second faster than the guy in the modded 12 Boss. I wondered what he would run if he was driving the 302S since his 12 Boss still has two front seats, carpet, stereo, a/c...

If only I could borrow a PP2 car for a day on the track

 

[Arthonon]

If only I could borrow a PP2 car for a day on the track

Well, for about 15-20 minutes on the track... (I keed, I keed...)

 

[sdiver68]

Assuming that a (currently fictitious) 10R80-equipped PP2 could match a GT350R through the corners, you'd be asking the 10R80 to cover for more than a 60 HP deficit down the straights. 20, maybe 30, I could believe.
Norm

Run the power to the wheels calc. I have, it's not pretty for the GT350. I'm working on a chart showing how much more power the 10R80 puts to the wheels. Not that a chart is needed, just look at real life trap speeds.

As I stated in another thread, I believe the fictitious same tire cooling enhanced PP2 10R80 would give the GT350 fits at most tracks....particularly over the course of a race not just best lap time.

 

[jake_zx2]

Run the power to the wheels calc. I have, it's not pretty for the GT350. I'm working on a chart showing how much more power the 10R80 puts to the wheels. Not that a chart is needed, just look at real life trap speeds.

As I stated in another thread, I believe the fictitious same tire cooling enhanced PP2 10R80 would give the GT350 fits at most tracks....particularly over the course of a race not just best lap time.

To expand on this point, I FINALLY found someone in my area with a GT350. Took a while to find one, since he tends to keep his car in the garage A LOT. However, he agreed that when we both have some free time, he'll do a couple roll races with me to see how well a stock 2018 GT Manual can do against a non-R GT350 in a speed range that really matters on track (we'll probably do 40-100 and 60-120 or something like that). I'll report back with results

 

[Mazman]

Randys hot lap time on Laguna Seca

qoute " for me a really strong drivers car on track" "really enjoyable and satisfaying experience"

You are lucky over there to be able to get this car for the money you have to spend

Some reference times in the proximity of the PP2 laptime, 1LE still quicker

 

[racrguy]

What video was this screengrabbed from? I'd love to go watch it.

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