Is Ford lacking on performance?

[jake_zx2]

[/COLOR]Not really, unless you're willing to agree that the PP1 is at the very best about midway between the non-1LE SS and the SS/1LE. The PP1 was over a second and a half slower around MT's H2H track than the 5th gen 1LE, so it didn't even hit the target everybody should have known enough to aim it at if they were going to be more than lip-service serious about the word 'performance'.

I think, as many others have already said, the competition for the standard SS. It's not meant to go up against the 1LE, and should never be compared to that car. There's a reason GM is talking about making a base Camaro with narrow all-season tires and less amenities. For fifth gens, we had the Boss 302 to go up against the 1LE. Now we have the GT350, which is really in a class of it's own. Honestly, I sometimes think Ford doesn't care too much about the competitor's lap times, they simply look to make the best all-around car they can. That's evident with the GT350... They could have very easily made a supercharged 5.0 with the same suspension components and some serious aero (or, in other words, the GT500 that's coming) to compete with the ZL1, but they wanted to focus on making a pure driving machine, and it's one of the most universally loved cars currently being made. hell, that car made non-mustang fans fall in love.

Bottom line is that it is a performance car. Just because it doesn't fit your standard of "performance" doesn't make it not a performance car.

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[howlins550]

where is this diff cooler that fits the 2018+ gt? The only ones im finding are only for ecoboost or gt350's

 

[millhouse]

where is this diff cooler that fits the 2018+ gt? The only ones im finding are only for ecoboost or gt350's

http://fulltiltboogieracing.com/S550_diff_cooler_kit.html

 

[jake_zx2]

Millhouse beat me to it

 

[howlins550]

http://fulltiltboogieracing.com/S550_diff_cooler_kit.html

Looks pretty good, ill have to check into it for sure. How would something like that be on a DD? It looks like you turn it on or off yourself?

 

[1 old racer]

http://fulltiltboogieracing.com/S550_diff_cooler_kit.html

great prce. i paid twice that price for a dff. cooler for my CTSV a lttle over 2 years ago

 

[jake_zx2]

Looks pretty good, ill have to check into it for sure. How would something like that be on a DD? It looks like you turn it on or off yourself?

If you look at the picture of the full kit, there seems to be an electronic actuator in the top right corner... I'd imagine it turns on and off automatically

 

[youra6]

I think, as many others have already said, the competition for the standard SS. It's not meant to go up against the 1LE, and should never be compared to that car. There's a reason GM is talking about making a base Camaro with narrow all-season tires and less amenities. For fifth gens, we had the Boss 302 to go up against the 1LE. Now we have the GT350, which is really in a class of it's own. Honestly, I sometimes think Ford doesn't care too much about the competitor's lap times, they simply look to make the best all-around car they can. That's evident with the GT350... They could have very easily made a supercharged 5.0 with the same suspension components and some serious aero (or, in other words, the GT500 that's coming) to compete with the ZL1, but they wanted to focus on making a pure driving machine, and it's one of the most universally loved cars currently being made. hell, that car made non-mustang fans fall in love.

Bottom line is that it is a performance car. Just because it doesn't fit your standard of "performance" doesn't make it not a performance car.

That's not the bottom line. The bottom line is that the ZL1 costs thousands less than a GT350R yet still beats it (albeit narrowly) on the track.

So yeah you're right, Ford could have easily put a blower on the GT350R but they didn't. Instead they will put it on a higher trimmed Shelby, ie: GT500 which will finally dethrone the ZL1 but will cost at the very least 10-20K more.

So people can make excuses why the Camaro is faster, or how Ford can "easily" make the Mustang faster. And people can claim that the Mustang is a more fun car to drive which I'm in accordance with. But that's subjective.

Objectively speaking, the Camaro is a better performance track car. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

 

[jake_zx2]

What you're not understanding is that the Camaro being a "Better performing car" does not make the Mustang a non-performance car.

No, the ZL1 does not cost THOUSANDS less than a GT350R, it costs A thousand less. Yes, it narrowly beats it on the track. Guess which one is still preferred by most enthusiasts?

They are both performance cars. They both offer INCREDIBLE performance for the price. Hell, the GT350R still runs circles around a $100k GTR on most tracks, beating it by a larger margin than the ZL1 beats the Mustang. To say that the "performance" name is misleading is 100% inaccurate, because (back to the bottom line) it is a performance car

 

[youra6]

What you're not understanding is that the Camaro being a "Better performing car" does not make the Mustang a non-performance car.

No, the ZL1 does not cost THOUSANDS less than a GT350R, it costs A thousand less. Yes, it narrowly beats it on the track. Guess which one is still preferred by most enthusiasts?

They are both performance cars. They both offer INCREDIBLE performance for the price. Hell, the GT350R still runs circles around a $100k GTR on most tracks, beating it by a larger margin than the ZL1 beats the Mustang. To say that the "performance" name is misleading is 100% inaccurate, because (back to the bottom line) it is a performance car

Well of course the GT350R is a performance car. So is the FiST or FoST...
The ZL1 is a better performance car on the track and on the strip.

Will I take a GT350R over a ZL1? Of course, any day of the week. The only real advantage the Camaro has over the Shelby is horsepower, but its large enough to beat the GT350R. I don't understand why Ford couldn't have slapped a blower on it as well? There is really no need for 3 different Shelby trim levels.

And also, where can you find a GT350R that is not marked up to hell? I understand the Camaro is also marked up, but not nearly as much as the Shelby. Part of it is the rarity of the car but still...

 

[jake_zx2]

Yes, it's a performance car. That's what spawned this conversation, was that Norm was saying the car isn't deserving of the "performance pack" moniker, which I am saying is incorrect.
The ZL1 is a better performance car, but we also have to be fair and point out that is isn't the car that Ford was benchmarking with the GT350R. They didn't slap a blower on it because most road racing fans (myself included) prefer a high revving, high horsepower N/A engine to a boosted one. However, I agree that having 3 Shelby trim levels is ridiculous, I really wish Ford would have released the GT350 and GT500 in the same year, and made the R versions of each a package rather than a totally different trim.

also, we aren't talking what dealers mark them up for. That can vary from dealership to dealership, and I've heard of people getting their GT350Rs for MSRP. However, part of the reason for the markups is also the desirability... more people want GT350Rs than ZL1s because it's the more desirable car

 

[WildHorse]

From a 'performance' standpoint.. I can say with confidence that the Grabber Blue car out performed the dark blue car.

 

[youra6]

Yes, it's a performance car. That's what spawned this conversation, was that Norm was saying the car isn't deserving of the "performance pack" moniker, which I am saying is incorrect.
The ZL1 is a better performance car, but we also have to be fair and point out that is isn't the car that Ford was benchmarking with the GT350R. They didn't slap a blower on it because most road racing fans (myself included) prefer a high revving, high horsepower N/A engine to a boosted one. However, I agree that having 3 Shelby trim levels is ridiculous, I really wish Ford would have released the GT350 and GT500 in the same year, and made the R versions of each a package rather than a totally different trim.

also, we aren't talking what dealers mark them up for. That can vary from dealership to dealership, and I've heard of people getting their GT350Rs for MSRP. However, part of the reason for the markups is also the desirability... more people want GT350Rs than ZL1s because it's the more desirable car

Cool, I agree with this.

 

[likeaboss]

What you're not understanding is that the Camaro being a "Better performing car" does not make the Mustang a non-performance car.

No, the ZL1 does not cost THOUSANDS less than a GT350R, it costs A thousand less. Yes, it narrowly beats it on the track. Guess which one is still preferred by most enthusiasts?

They are both performance cars. They both offer INCREDIBLE performance for the price. Hell, the GT350R still runs circles around a $100k GTR on most tracks, beating it by a larger margin than the ZL1 beats the Mustang. To say that the "performance" name is misleading is 100% inaccurate, because (back to the bottom line) it is a performance car

Comparing the ZL1 with the GT350R without AC pricing isn’t a fair comparison. The ZL1 is thousands less and when you look at ADM on the R it makes things worse. I agree with the rest of your statement though.

 

[jake_zx2]

How is it not fair? Ford intended for it to be a certain price, and just because some people want the car bad enough to pay extra for it does not mean that that's its intended market. If that were the case, we'd be comparing GT350Rs to Z06s

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