Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[jake_zx2]

What you're asking for would probably take a level of insider knowledge that would get anybody on the inside at Chevrolet fired if they disclosed it.

Outside of GM, if you haven't been asking at least at the JPSS (Pete Basica, mostly Camaro) or possibly Vorshlag (Terry Fair, more Mustang) level, you've probably been wasting your time. I'm sure there's a few others; those names are off the top of my head (but with basis beyond having had occasional dealings with both).


Norm

I've talked to terry before... See, the thing is, the educated ones aren't the ones claiming it has a "superior chassis". That's because, quite frankly, it doesn't. It has a small advantage in weight and wheelbase/overhangs, but otherwise has similar flex measurements (Only separated my 1000nm/in or so). There are very similar chassis, but all the magazine editors like to call the Alpha "superior" just because GM concentrates their suspension tuning more on track duty than streetability. It's funny, because editors will say the GT350 has an incredible chassis, while the GT has a dinosaur chassis, when in reality the only significant difference is suspension tuning.

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[EcoVert]

I've talked to terry before... See, the thing is, the educated ones aren't the ones claiming it has a "superior chassis". That's because, quite frankly, it doesn't. It has a small advantage in weight and wheelbase/overhangs, but otherwise has similar flex measurements (Only separated my 1000nm/in or so). There are very similar chassis, but all the magazine editors like to call the Alpha "superior" just because GM concentrates their suspension tuning more on track duty than streetability. It's funny, because editors will say the GT350 has an incredible chassis, while the GT has a dinosaur chassis, when in reality the only significant difference is suspension tuning.

Your right but you better watch out you'll have all the c6g fanboys after for debasing there supercar. :lol:

 

[Norm Peterson]

Have you spent a lot of time in the S550? It has plenty of storage, IMO. Even more than my S197 had.

That doesn't take much, not much at all . . . your opinion may differ.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I've talked to terry before... See, the thing is, the educated ones aren't the ones claiming it has a "superior chassis". That's because, quite frankly, it doesn't. It has a small advantage in weight and wheelbase/overhangs, but otherwise has similar flex measurements (Only separated my 1000nm/in or so). There are very similar chassis, but all the magazine editors like to call the Alpha "superior" just because GM concentrates their suspension tuning more on track duty than streetability. It's funny, because editors will say the GT350 has an incredible chassis, while the GT has a dinosaur chassis, when in reality the only significant difference is suspension tuning.

When I use the term 'chassis' I'm considering more than just the car structure as a beam between the various suspension attachment points. I'm also considering suspension geometry and pivot details, and at least to some extent the tuning, so I guess I'm setting the chassis boundary at the wheel attachment points.


Norm

 

[jake_zx2]

When I use the term 'chassis' I'm considering more than just the car structure as a beam between the various suspension attachment points. I'm also considering suspension geometry and pivot details, and at least to some extent the tuning, so I guess I'm setting the chassis boundary at the wheel attachment points.


Norm

See, from that point, it sort of makes sense, but it also makes it seem less significant. When people claim it's the better chassis, it's to imply that there's nothing you can do to a Mustang to make it on the same performance level as the Camaro, simply because it's a better developed chassis, and as we all know, that's simply inaccurate. But even from a geometry standpoint, there isn't all that much difference. They both have macpherson struts up front with similar mount points, and all the hardware looks extremely similar. If the Camaro had a double wishbone front end (Like the catfish), then I could understand the "Better chassis" standpoint, but when you start talking mount and pivot points, it comes down to the point of relevance; ultimately, it's all stuff that can be corrected or compensated for quite easily

 

[bootlegger]

That doesn't take much, not much at all . . . your opinion may differ.


Norm

You must be used to family cars. If you want to see limited storage and interior space, check out a 350Z convertible. The trunk space on the S550 is similar to that of my old STI. If you want my honest opinion, I would give up the back seats and half the trunk space in the Mustang for a few hundred pounds worth of weight loss.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Not really.

It will take a platform change (Alpha2 or whatever) to improve the cars ergonomics and storage space. A big part of it will be lowering the beltline on the cars from the insanely high place it's at now to a more comfortable position. That'll improve sightlines all around as well.

This. You can ad cubby holes galore. And nobody will want to be inside. No matter where you position the seat. The sight lines are horrible. My wife is 5.5. She had to raise the seat all the way up. Just to peak over the dash. Now me at 6.4.
I had to recline the seat back in a stupid gangster lean type position. Or my head was touching the ceiling. Nobody wants to daily drive a car your not comfortable in. Or cant see out of!. Build a camaro with 6th gen power and 3rd gen sightlines and the car will sell.

 

[millhouse]

This. You can ad cubby holes galore. And nobody will want to be inside. No matter where you position the seat. The sight lines are horrible. My wife is 5.5. She had to raise the seat all the way up. Just to peak over the dash. Now me at 6.4.
I had to recline the seat back in a stupid gangster lean type position. Or my head was touching the ceiling. Nobody wants to daily drive a car your not comfortable in. Or cant see out of!. Build a camaro with 6th gen power and 3rd gen sightlines and the car will sell.

You mean, except those that have the "I have the smallest gentleman's sausage therefore I must own the fastest car" syndrome.

It's amazing what some people will put up with for bragging rights. :headbonk:

 

[bootlegger]

Then why is he on here all the time (and Camaro 6) rubbishing the s550?
The chassis is crap
The brakes are crap
The gearbox is crap
Even the cupholders are crap
On and on it goes. He should put his Canyon Carvers money where his mouth is and buy a Camaro.

It would take a lot of cash to make an S197 keep up with an S550 PP1 on a road course.

 

[w3rkn]

So, following that logic, why was the '17 GT Vert PP $7k LESS than my car? Because it was more upscale? Nope.

Nobody cares, it is a Camaro...

Not sure if you look at your interior, or just in a habit of looking past it...

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Nobody cares, it is a Camaro...

Not sure if you look at your interior, or just in a habit of looking past it...

He doesn’t look at his interior because it creeps him out. He swears it’s stearing back at him.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Then why is he on here all the time (and Camaro 6) rubbishing the s550?
The chassis is crap
The brakes are crap
The gearbox is crap
Even the cupholders are crap
On and on it goes. He should put his Canyon Carvers money where his mouth is and buy a Camaro.

If you're aiming that at me, sure, I'm annoyed with Ford for having sent a knife to a gunfight. And with MT for proceeding anyway.

I've never said the chassis or the brakes or the gearbox was crap, only that the wheels & tires for the Mustang that was tested weren't up to the task.
Check that, the suspension tuning wasn't what it could and should have been even for the earlier tests. Why wasn't it improved in the meantime?

On the other hand, you may be confusing me with somebody else. Time will tell if the PP2 is up to the task.


A 1LE certainly wouldn't be out of the question if I had to go car shopping today. Dunno, maybe it's only the PP2 keeping this all in a state of "no decision".


Norm

 

[1320']

It would take a lot of cash to make an S197 keep up with an S550 PP1 on a road course.

Probably around $6,000 in suspension work, at that point the S197 would club the ever loving crap out of a PP1 in all realms of road course work.

 

[bootlegger]

Probably around $6,000 in suspension work, at that point the S197 would club the ever loving crap out of a PP1 in all realms of road course work.

Power adders may be needed as well. Any road course with some decent straights will leave that old 4.6L far behind.

 

[1320']

Power adders may be needed as well. Any road course with some decent straights will leave that old 4.6L far behind.

Keep in mind the S197 includes the 2011+ 5.0's.

If you're only talking about the 4.6's then yes..a power added would be needed, or at least an aggressive HCI combo.

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