Newly Purchased GT/CS - Auto

[Norm Peterson]

How many of us have driven 400hp+ vehicles without all the electronic nannies?

It's plenty easy if you're disciplined enough as a driver. And smart enough to realize that you can't always get away driving a 400+ HP performance car in all the same ways you could with most anything having less than half the HP.

If you aren't that disciplined as a driver, a strong case can be made that you aren't ready to be driving anything with that much power. People are only kidding themselves when they believe that having all these nannies relieves them of the responsibilities of tightening up their driving discipline and improving their skill set when stepping into something with higher performance potential.


Norm

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[c-rizzle]

Hey Guys,

I just purchased my 2017 GT/CS - Auto this past Saturday. I have a couple of newbie questions so bare with me.

1) I was thinking about getting this exhaust here: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-5200-M8SB

But will adding a new exhaust improve performance or will it just improve sound?

2) does the automatic transmission have a rev limiter ? if you place the shifter into 'S' mode? From what read in the manual, it does not appear to limit rev's in that specific mode.

3) What is the difference between Sport+ and Track? - I know that Track disables traction control but i also understand (from the owners manual) that it modifies the responsiveness of transmission?

Thanks,

Robert

1. It adds sound. Do it, I like the Ford Performance stuff. Your car is a little more resellable if its got the "FORD" stamped parts on it (over other aftermarket parts)

2. Yes, it will definitely wake the car up. Make shift points a little more aggressive. Putting it in Sport or Track mode also helps this, but with the Tune + those modes even better. The big difference, is the low end torque with the Ford Tune. It picks up more torque than almost any other tune, and its very noticeable when you hit the gas at lower RPMs.

3. Don't turn all nannies off. Use the Sport or Track mode, both loosen the nannies to allow you to have more fun. In the pre-2015 cars, you could hold the brake and double tap the Traction Control for basically the equivalent to Sport/Track mode. (loosened nannies) The only time you should be turning the nannies off completely is when you're at the track and you're LEARNING to use the car to its potential in safe conditions. NEVER TURN THEM OFF AT CARS AND COFFEES!!

 

[rob_s]

I have the Ford Racing sport catback (with chrome, not black, tips, but that's purely aesthetic) and I love it. Paired with the PP2, it makes amazing pops and burbles on lift-off. Like others have said, it's only a sound thing, no real performance gains. But I'll also advise not buying from the Ford Performance website. All the big vendors list the black tip version for $1379, but with forum discount codes and watching the sales, you can probably get down to about $1200.

 

[jasonstang]

The problem is not 435+ HP. The problem is lack of thought, lack of critical thinking.

The throttle pedal is not an on/off switch, and morons that think the nannies are going to save them treat it as such.

Nannies, in fact, just make drivers worse. They learn less about the driving dynamics of their car, and expect their car to save their arse all the time.

Over-cook a situation, and the nannies won't save you. If you expect the nannies to save you, you'll over-cook the car into a corner, into a deep braking situation, and you'll crash. The nannies can only do so much, they can't actually stop you from crashing.

The nannies mask driving inadequacies, and give bad drivers a false sense of control.

It's plenty easy if you're disciplined enough as a driver. And smart enough to realize that you can't always get away driving a 400+ HP performance car in all the same ways you could with most anything having less than half the HP.

If you aren't that disciplined as a driver, a strong case can be made that you aren't ready to be driving anything with that much power. People are only kidding themselves when they believe that having all these nannies relieves them of the responsibilities of tightening up their driving discipline and improving their skill set when stepping into something with higher performance potential.


Norm

The nannies are not about controlling the drivers from doing stupid stuff too. What if you drive over some gravel mid corners and the back end start to slide?
What if someone dumped some oil in the middle of the street.
You are saying all loss of controls are caused by the driver which is hardly the case.
I once again don't want to hear how you can drive without nannies on a race track. A race track is not the same as real world.
Actually if you overcooked a corner, the nannies can still pull the car in by applying braking to the inside rear wheel which is something you as a driver doesn't matter how good you are can do. Well unless you have four brake pedal.
Same with oversteer, the nannies will brake the outside front wheel to reduce rotation.

 

[yomamma219]

3. Hold the traction control button up for 7 seconds (with foot on the brake pedal) and turn everything off. A yellow light on the dash will come on, along with a warning of "AdvanceTrac disengaged" or something like that. Then drive like God intended. Use your skill.

What if he doesn't have enough skill to handle the truth?

 

[Norm Peterson]

What if you drive over some gravel mid corners and the back end start to slide?

You should either be looking ahead far enough to see and adjust for this condition, or at least have left enough margin for error to cope with this situation without going off the road. Been there, with about a 45° spin being the result. Exactly once in 53+ years of generally more enthusiastic than average driving.

What if someone dumped some oil in the middle of the street.

With nannies or without, you're toast. Been there, too.

You are saying all loss of controls are caused by the driver which is hardly the case.

No, I'm not.

What I am saying is that the driver will end up being less capable of recognizing situations (or correctly modulating his driving inputs) where greater risk of losing control is a likely (predictable?) result. He simply won't think in terms of the vehicle ever coming "unstuck-down" until it lets go past the point where the nannies can save the situation. Won't even know how to think that way.

I once again don't want to hear how you can drive without nannies on a race track. A race track is not the same as real world.

My avatar car doesn't even have stability control, nor does the 'spare car' in my sig. By your logic, I probably shouldn't be driving them on the street either, and should immediately trade them in for cars that do have that particular nanny.

I won't use the 'race track ability' here because I don't have to. Just an event-free 40 or so years of enthusiastic driving for me and 40 more for my wife. That's in cars of decent or better performance potential with no nannies other than ABS in sight (only a couple of ABS cars, for whatever that's worth). If you can't believe that to be possible, there's no hope for you understanding that it is possible to be a driver who's good enough on his own without "assistances".

Actually if you overcooked a corner, the nannies can still pull the car in by applying braking to the inside rear wheel which is something you as a driver doesn't matter how good you are can do. Well unless you have four brake pedal.
Same with oversteer, the nannies will brake the outside front wheel to reduce rotation.

I know a little about vehicle dynamics and understand the theoretical advantages very well, thank you.

Now, do you understand that it is possible to stay below the point where such interventions would be beneficial? As in always and under a very wide range of conditions/circumstances?

Do you further understand that sometimes they can intervene sooner than necessary (which can introduce a different but consequential risk that wouldn't have been there otherwise)? Seen this one, too.

I make no claims for either myself or my wife as "FIA super-license level capable", so if we've been able to pull it off all those years it's far from impossible for the average person who isn't a professional race car driver.


Norm

 

[NoVaGT]

What if he doesn't have enough skill to handle the truth?

:lol::lol:

 

[NoVaGT]

The nannies are not about controlling the drivers from doing stupid stuff too. What if you drive over some gravel mid corners and the back end start to slide?
What if someone dumped some oil in the middle of the street.
You are saying all loss of controls are caused by the driver which is hardly the case.
I once again don't want to hear how you can drive without nannies on a race track. A race track is not the same as real world.
Actually if you overcooked a corner, the nannies can still pull the car in by applying braking to the inside rear wheel which is something you as a driver doesn't matter how good you are can do. Well unless you have four brake pedal.
Same with oversteer, the nannies will brake the outside front wheel to reduce rotation.

Driving with the nannies on means you'll never develop your car control to the point that your reactions to any of the above will be correct. You'll drive around fat, dumb and lazy, just happy to know your car is doing all it can to repeatedly save you from yourself.

Until you stupidly push too far and it can't.

The entire point is that YOU learn how to drive. YOU get better at handling your vehicle. YOU learn car control and how to properly react to different situations.

I apologize for this blanket statement........in advance, to the PC crowd, who take offense professionally;

Nannies are for losers.

Real drivers know/learn how to drive, how to control, what the limits are, how to react. With the nannies on, you won't learn a damn thing.

 

[jasonstang]

Driving with the nannies on means you'll never develop your car control to the point that your reactions to any of the above will be correct. You'll drive around fat, dumb and lazy, just happy to know your car is doing all it can to repeatedly save you from yourself.

Until you stupidly push too far and it can't.

The entire point is that YOU learn how to drive. YOU get better at handling your vehicle. YOU learn car control and how to properly react to different situations.

I apologize for this blanket statement........in advance, to the PC crowd, who take offense professionally;

Nannies are for losers.

Real drivers know/learn how to drive, how to control, what the limits are, how to react. With the nannies on, you won't learn a damn thing.

That's like saying throw the kids in the lion cage or they will never learn why lions are dangerous. Why even parenting when you just let them do stupid shit and learn from that?
Of course nannies can teach a person where the the limits are when driving a particular car. If you feel the nannies are interfering (which is hard to miss with flashing lights and brakes pulsing), you know you have gone too far. You back off from that safely without getting into a situation that is too hard to control with no nannies on.

 

[jasonstang]

You should either be looking ahead far enough to see and adjust for this condition, or at least have left enough margin for error to cope with this situation without going off the road. Been there, with about a 45° spin being the result. Exactly once in 53+ years of generally more enthusiastic than average driving.

Wouldn't it be nice if gravel is different color than the road so you can spot it before you drive on it.
I drive on the track with nannies off too simply because I know the track condition is predictable. It's not in the real world and trust me I know how to spot situations as I ride two wheels most of the time. I put more miles on my bike than I do in my Mustang. I push my bike hard and I leave no chicken strips on my back tire. Even so there are situations where I would activate traction control and ABS on my bike. Are they necessary? No. But it's always nice to have it when you don't need it than need it when you don't have it.

 

[NoVaGT]

That's like saying throw the kids in the lion cage or they will never learn why lions are dangerous. Why even parenting when you just let them do stupid shit and learn from that?
Of course nannies can teach a person where the the limits are when driving a particular car. If you feel the nannies are interfering (which is hard to miss with flashing lights and brakes pulsing), you know you have gone too far. You back off from that safely without getting into a situation that is too hard to control with no nannies on.

Look........

Let's agree to disagree. We're not going to change one another's minds.

It's up to the OP to decide what he/she wants to do.















Pssssssst......OP.

Shut.

Them.

All.

Off.

 

[jasonstang]

Look........

Let's agree to disagree. We're not going to change one another's minds.

Do you wear seat belt when you drive?
I mean if you are such a good driver that can predict any kind of situation on the road, why wear seat belt. There is no reason to.

 

[S7N]

If you really want to learn how to drive the car just keep the summer tires on and wait till it snows. :headbonk:

 

[Norm Peterson]

That's like saying throw the kids in the lion cage or they will never learn why lions are dangerous.

You're grasping at straws with an analogy like that, where the outcome is independent of anything the human might do.

Or are you trying to say that people who don't drive with the nannies turned on are guaranteed to have an unfortunate outcome? If so, it must be miracle upon miracle that the three of us are discussing this today.

If you feel the nannies are interfering (which is hard to miss with flashing lights and brakes pulsing),

When you're either driving with a fair bit of enthusiasm through the curves, or on a wet/slippery road, why on earth would you look down toward the instrument panel? Those are the most critical times to be looking where you want the car to go (hands follow eyes, car follows hands). I can't remember ever seeing TC or ESC lights - in either of the two cars that even have one or the other - flash under any circumstances because I simply don't look down there when they might be flashing. My eyes are focused out through the windshield above the hood line and somewhere down the road and the IP might as well cease to exist for the next few seconds.

The only exceptions have been the times when I was intentionally trying to provoke TC in the Mustang to find out how effective (or not) that it was. (Those of you who need to have an effective TC present, don't buy my car if I ever sell it.) And the little upshift indicator lights on my A-pillar mounted auxiliary gauge, which are the only lights that I need to see immediately, and that only happens at the track.

you know you have gone too far. You back off from that safely without getting into a situation that is too hard to control with no nannies on.

Methinks its' better to learn what it feels like for the tires to start sliding from either too much slip angle or traction/braking slip. That way, you recognize what it feels like to approach the limit from below rather than suddenly finding out that you've blown clear through it.

It's what I learned, entirely on my own, long before even ABS was commonly available. Easier to learn that you're getting close to the limit from below it than from having to back down an unknown amount from an unknown amount past it.

Wouldn't it be nice if gravel is different color than the road so you can spot it before you drive on it.

That's what you always leave yourself enough margin to cover for, and I guess the "how much" of this margin has to be an individual thing. But this approach does work.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Do you wear seat belt when you drive?
I mean if you are such a good driver that can predict any kind of situation on the road, why wear seat belt. There is no reason to.

You don't think being held down in the seat only a little better gives you some car control advantage over not being held down at all?


Norm

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