POLL: Guess MY18 Power Level!

[Ctease]

I wish the vehicle didn't have the headers in this example, but while the '15 has more power under the total curve, pretty much everything below 4.5k RPM doesn't matter after first. First gear is traction limited anyways, so shifting the power to the top end will produce better times (as long as you don't go as far as the GT350 with the bottom end being harmful to times). With the better cams in the car, no reason that they should've designed that engine not to hit 7500 RPM with better torque and output than the Boss. The only limiting factor is that intake.

Fuel is bad for cats, DI helps total combustion of the fuel. During cold starts, a lot of fuel is dumped to get the engine and catalyst up to operating temperature. DI helps.

I was meaning that new emissions requirements are being effected in at 2017. We're currently in Tier2 going to Tier3. All cars will be certified to a Tier3 category, there are just many different bins that a vehicle meets requirements for. This involves volume mixing by the manufacturers of different models as you're saying. Petroleumjesus was asking a question on why would Ford change anything if not for more power than the current powerpacks, I was showing that the new emissions standards are driving those changes and that I highly doubt those powerpacks or the current Coyote is capable of meeting the new emissions requirements without rebinning of the vehicle (meaning they would need to compensate elsewhere with a SULEV vehicle).

I was replying to your claim DI lowers PM IAW table 7. Yup they have fleet emissions quota and that's what I just said in my previous reply.

I would need to read the data on DI & cats.

Most people drive below 3k. We know hp & tq of '11, Boss, '15, '15 w/ Ford Performance Package Stage 1 & 2. '15 intake manifold makes more power under the curve. Plus both Stage 1 & 2 (intake & TB) with Ford 91 tune, no long tubes, cats and emissions certificate makes more peak hp & tq. Sure might cause Ford to fleet emissions to change. But doesn't that hurt your point and not mine. Unless the argument could be made Boss manifold reduces emissions.
The beauty of DI is increased Hp, Tq & MPG. Reducing CO2 is a bonus but might be a wash with increase or no decrease in PM. Reducing engine displacement and adding variable lift to regain power & tq would give better emissions than DI. Heck this isn't even strictly DI, they're using DI/PFI because it reduces PM.

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[cosmo]

I was replying to your claim DI lowers PM IAW table 7. Yup they have fleet emissions quota and that's what I just said in my previous reply.

I would need to read the data on DI & cats.

Most people drive below 3k. We know hp & tq of '11, Boss, '15, '15 w/ Ford Performance Package Stage 1 & 2. '15 intake manifold makes more power under the curve. Plus both Stage 1 & 2 (intake & TB) with Ford 91 tune, no long tubes, cats and emissions certificate makes more peak hp & tq. Sure might cause Ford to fleet emissions to change. But doesn't that hurt your point and not mine. Unless the argument could be made Boss manifold reduces emissions.
The beauty of DI is increased Hp, Tq & MPG. Reducing CO2 is a bonus but might be a wash with increase or no decrease in PM. Reducing engine displacement and adding variable lift to regain power & tq would give better emissions than DI. Heck this isn't even strictly DI, they're using DI/PFI because it reduces PM.

I was noting the table as it reflected the dates when the new emissions standard start, not anything regarding PM and DI. I gave you credit, "...just as you are saying". I was explaining my point regarding emissions.

I don't have any publicly available catalyst/DI data, sorry.

Electronic throttle mapping below 3k RPM means that under normal driving circumstances people won't notice the lack of torque because the computer won't output full torque until WOT. If the current intake manifold is truly fine, why has no one gone faster than a stock Boss 302? The weight difference isn't enough, a tire only Boss has gone 11.70s. I haven't seen anyone near that stock. The stock manifold may improve the punch around town, but it is lacking when looking for overall performance.

I'm not a fan of DI by itself because even with calibration tricks, you can't completely keep the valves clean. I'm glad Ford is doing PFDI instead. But... Ford doesn't care about the overall effects on the environment, only what emissions says they need to care about. See: harmful emissions effects of HEV batteries production vs the emissions of just a standard engine. CO2 reduction was the number one focus, the particulates is up next.

 

[Ctease]

Electronic throttle mapping below 3k RPM means that under normal driving circumstances people won't notice the lack of torque because the computer won't output full torque until WOT. If the current intake manifold is truly fine, why has no one gone faster than a stock Boss 302? The weight difference isn't enough, a tire only Boss has gone 11.70s. I haven't seen anyone near that stock. The stock manifold may improve the punch around town, but it is lacking when looking for overall performance.

I'm not a fan of DI by itself because even with calibration tricks, you can't completely keep the valves clean. I'm glad Ford is doing PFDI instead. But... Ford doesn't care about the overall effects on the environment, only what emissions says they need to care about. See: harmful emissions effects of HEV batteries production vs the emissions of just a standard engine. CO2 reduction was the number one focus, the particulates is up next.

What's the weight difference?
You don't believe the ford's dyno? If so that's cool.
How fast is S550 with Ford Performance Stage 2, on tires and weight equal to Boss? How many monkey's can dance on the head of a pin? I said in my first reply GT is not a drag car. Torquey manifold shines even more at part-throttle acceleration and cruising.

I have absolutely no idea what Ford cares about or why batteries were thrown into this. Give me proof CO2 was number one focus and PM next. Prove Hp, Tq and/or MPG wasn't number one focus. It's cool if you have secret knowledge.

 

[NoVaGT]

Still no numbers from Ford????

Really???

A guess on the combination of DI and regular FI; in addition to regular fuel injection system keeping the valves clean, it will also allow owners to increase fuel flow when they add forced induction.

Assuming the DI isn't capable of adding much more fuel.

 

[GTRacerX.]

Everyone could be wrong about MY2018 Power Levels

Can anyone say Twin Turbo? :lol:

https://www.stangnet.com/2012/10/30/twin-turbo-5-0-coyote-cobra-jet-sema/

Thought I would throw a grenade into this thread. :lol: :ford:

 

[c-rizzle]

Can anyone say Twin Turbo? :lol:

https://www.stangnet.com/2012/10/30/twin-turbo-5-0-coyote-cobra-jet-sema/

Thought I would throw a grenade into this thread. :lol: :ford:

GT500 Ecobeast, twin turbo.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Still no numbers from Ford????

Really???

They've stated you won't get numbers until much nearer when the car goes on sale. So we've got months to wait yet :(

 

[15wile]

There was all that numerology bullsh*t about the pictures saying 455 in the '18 reveal...

...but it's probably hogwash or trolling. My money is on either 460 or 465, just because if Ford has any sense, they want to eek a victory over the Camaro.

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

It's painful to read some of these posts. Short of homogenous charge, DI cycling has absolutely nothing in common with PFI cycling. It's not an improvement, it's basically an entirely different engine. The different cycles (most DI systems have at least 5) are completely independent of each other, so the tuning of stratified charge (best fuel economy) has nothing to do with the tuning of homogenous charge (Best power)... not even as far as throttling is concerned because the former doesn't even use the throttle body. To state that the application of direct injection has any focus (emissions, economy, power or otherwise) couldn't be further from reality. The entire point is that each mode of operation is entirely separate, unlike PFI engines. There are no compromises. Period.

 

[GTRacerX.]

So in plain english .....

It's painful to read some of these posts. Short of homogenous charge, DI cycling has absolutely nothing in common with PFI cycling. It's not an improvement, it's basically an entirely different engine. The different cycles (most DI systems have at least 5) are completely independent of each other, so the tuning of stratified charge (best fuel economy) has nothing to do with the tuning of homogenous charge (Best power)... not even as far as throttling is concerned because the former doesn't even use the throttle body. To state that the application of direct injection has any focus (emissions, economy, power or otherwise) couldn't be further from reality. The entire point is that each mode of operation is entirely separate, unlike PFI engines. There are no compromises. Period.

Your saying 2015-2017 5.0 Coyote engine would be better for modding ?
Just wondering with such high compression on the new 5.0 engine if we can
even consider supercharging - not knowing the structural composition or limitations of the new 5.0 Coyote engine. Add to that this whole new fuel delivery system and it could be some time before tuners and the aftermarket can help us 1/4 mile junkies. :tsk:

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

Your saying 2015-2017 5.0 Coyote engine would be better for modding ?
Just wondering with such high compression on the new 5.0 engine if we can
even consider supercharging - not knowing the structural composition or limitations of the new 5.0 Coyote engine. Add to that this whole new fuel delivery system and it could be some time before tuners and the aftermarket can help us 1/4 mile junkies. :tsk:

From a tuning standpoint, yes.

Consider how much trouble tuners have had with the GT350 throttle body. Now consider that there a minimum of 5 different tunes, 3 of which will have tuned just to ensure that one tune can work in phase with the other five. Of the 3, 1 uses the throttle body in the traditional sense, 1 doesn't use it at all (fuel throttling, TB wide open), and the third is essentially a algorithmic tune which ensures a smooth phase transitioning between the first two, generated on the fly by the ECU. Now consider that most tuners have never touched DI engines.

The other option is locking out the other modes and running a single, but if you're going to do that you might as well just save the cost of the high-pressure fuel system and extra electronics and just build up a PI coyote.

 

[1320']

It is more than likely that the great gains we've grown used to (20+ HP/TQ from just a tune) will not be the same after the switch. It's also possible Ford could take the Coyote closer to full potential, factory, than current.

As an example, look at the LT1. LS3's/L99's would gain big amounts of power, 20+HP/30+ torque, from a tune..the LT1 only gains about 10hp/10TQ now.

 

[GTRacerX.]

Another monkey wrench into 2018 Ford Mustang Purchase

From a tuning standpoint, yes.

Consider how much trouble tuners have had with the GT350 throttle body. Now consider that there a minimum of 5 different tunes, 3 of which will have tuned just to ensure that one tune can work in phase with the other five. Of the 3, 1 uses the throttle body in the traditional sense, 1 doesn't use it at all (fuel throttling, TB wide open), and the third is essentially a algorithmic tune which ensures a smooth phase transitioning between the first two, generated on the fly by the ECU. Now consider that most tuners have never touched DI engines.

The other option is locking out the other modes and running a single, but if you're going to do that you might as well just save the cost of the high-pressure fuel system and extra electronics and just build up a PI coyote.

Being an IT guy I have never been an early adopter of new technology.
I have always waited until the 2nd or 3rd model of any new product that was introduced. 2018 Ford Mustang GT entirely new engine, new transmission, new digital dash - Makes me want to rethink purchasing the 2018. Maybe purchase a heavy discounted 2017 and have money left over for mods. When the S650 comes out then trade up.

Besides hate to throw down 35-40k on a new car and then have it sitting in the shop all the time !

 

[Ctease]

Ecoboost guys don't seem to have a problem tuning their cars. FRS/BRZ/86 guys have both systems and seem to be fine. Wonder if they double checked their stratified and homo mixers.

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

Being an IT guy I have never been an early adopter of new technology.
I have always waited until the 2nd or 3rd model of any new product that was introduced. 2018 Ford Mustang GT entirely new engine, new transmission, new digital dash - Makes me want to rethink purchasing the 2018. Maybe purchase a heavy discounted 2017 and have money left over for mods. When the S650 comes out then trade up.

Besides hate to throw down 35-40k on a new car and then have it sitting in the shop all the time !

That's exactly what I did for exactly the same reasons. I'm hoping for a 3600lb 500hp S650. If it's not, I'll weigh other options.

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