2015-2016 Tech Pack and Base GT350 Cooler Solution Discussion

[Minn19]

I still can't believe this is going on...give your car back.

For those in Canada - use CAMVAP. I did. Ford had to buy my car back. I got a 2017. The process isn't difficult, you just cannot be a muppet. I represented myself, was calm, cool and informed. Wasn't an issue. Took less than 2 months from start to finish.

I should mention, in order for this to happen, your car will have had to have gone into limp mode. Easier if it has gone into limp mode in the street. Even easier if Ford flew someone out, had them jump in the car with you and it hit limp mode in the summer in under 20 minutes.

Or, install the coolers yourself, save yourself 2 months. Also a solid option.

I don't know if you are talking to me or not, but I'm not a muppet and I've explained many times here that I tried to lemon my car or have Ford buy it back, but I was unsuccessful.

Also, I was going to have a reputable local shop install the coolers. That is until I ran into the mechanical issues had leading to my replacement engine. I pretty much had to threaten to lemon the car to get them to honor their warranty on a completely stock car. I'm not sure I want to mess with it yet and be out multiple more thousands of dollars.

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[dron_jones]

I've never sued anybody in my life and I hope I never have to as I share the same feelings as you do. But sometimes it is neccasary and so are lawyers. I'm not saying that may be the case here, but I don't know yet.

You can have a difference of opinion all you want, but there are two facts here.

1. Ford absolutely had/has the data on the tech pack cars and withheld that info from the customer. All the while advertising this car with a lot of ambiguity built in, but constantly beating the " the most track capable Mustang ever!"

2. Ford/FP promised a fix and completely botched not only the time it took to roll it out the options, but even how to obtain these options. While they say in the manual to obtain both of the coolers, but don't even offer a differential solution?

Also for me and a lot of others there is other issues clouding our feelings. My car has already had its engine replaced and of course I still have to go back for the often talked about oil cooler line recall. This isn't even bringing into the many other quality issues I've had my car in for. The biggest one being a hole under the back window that would leak during a rain storm or car wash.

Ford showed the world that they could build an awesome fun DD with unbelievable track performance that could run with the best of the Germans and others. Unfortunately they are also showing the world they can't back this up from a mechanical, quality control or customer service standpoint.

Like i said agree to disagree and i'll leave it at that.

 

[JN66]

I don't know if you are talking to me or not, but I'm not a muppet and I've explained many times here that I tried to lemon my car or have Ford buy it back, but I was unsuccessful.

Also, I was going to have a reputable local shop install the coolers. That is until I ran into the mechanical issues had leading to my replacement engine. I pretty much had to threaten to lemon the car to get them to honor their warranty on a completely stock car. I'm not sure I want to mess with it yet and be out multiple more thousands of dollars.

Naw, wasn't speaking to anyone in particular bro. Just throwing it out in general that some of us have been successful with a 'lemon' buyback.

Ford didn't want too, but, they were ordered too in my case. Sorry that you haven't been successful man.

 

[Minn19]

Like i said agree to disagree and i'll leave it at that.

What exactly do you disagree with in my posts?

As I've asked [MENTION=19066]Epiphany[/MENTION] many times, but he usually either bypasses my posts or never responds to my or others legitimate points. You guys just say it is a difference of opinion or we should've done this or that.

A lot of us here made decisions based on the best info available and we ended up where we are. I hope the shoe isn't on the other foot for you or others someday as you will find out that frustrating barely scratches the surface.

 

[Minn19]

Naw, wasn't speaking to anyone in particular bro. Just throwing it out in general that some of us have been successful with a 'lemon' buyback.

Ford didn't want too, but, they were ordered too in my case. Sorry that you haven't been successful man.

I'm truly envious, I'm glad you got a great result and are in a 17. :cheers:

 

[Since-64']

I still can't believe this is going on...give your car back.

For those in Canada - use CAMVAP. I did. Ford had to buy my car back. I got a 2017. The process isn't difficult, you just cannot be a muppet. I represented myself, was calm, cool and informed. Wasn't an issue. Took less than 2 months from start to finish.

I should mention, in order for this to happen, your car will have had to have gone into limp mode. Easier if it has gone into limp mode in the street. Even easier if Ford flew someone out, had them jump in the car with you and it hit limp mode in the summer in under 20 minutes.

Or, install the coolers yourself, save yourself 2 months. Also a solid option.

Thanks for posting. I had always seen many lemon law case stories but being a Canadian I always looked on various forums to see if someone posted a story of having used CAMVAP as we dont have lemon laws technically... yours is the first, and with a good result at that! So thats great to hear. :clap2:

 

[dron_jones]

What exactly do you disagree with in my posts.

As I've asked [MENTION=19066]Epiphany[/MENTION] many times, but usually either bypasses my posts or never responds to my or others legitimate points. You guys just say it is a difference of opinion or we should've done this or that.

A lot of us here made decisions based on the best info available and we ended up where we are. I hope the shoe isn't on the other foot for you or others someday as you will find out that frustrating barely scratches the surface.

If you want to discuss more i'd be happy to PM you my thoughts, i'd rather have a civilized discussion vs how i can imagine it would spiral out of control on here.

 

[Epiphany]

@Epiphany

1. Q. Did your non tech each radio cause your car to become basically mechanically limited in any way either on the track or during street driving?

My answer. No it didn't so I don't see this is an analogical argument.

2. Has Ford or any dealer stated that the tech pack car would most likely go limp 10-15 minutes into one session at a HPDE or on a freeway on a very hot day? Or that it wouldn't even match a much less expensive regular GT when it came to cooling.

My answer. I highly doubt it, but I obviously don't know for sure. Again, had any of us had this knowledge I highly doubt any of us would've bought the tech pack.

3. I and others appreciate your help in this manner. But, a couple of things on that. It took forever for FP to come out with the promised fix and when they did it wasn't very clear. One is an incomplete kit. The second one is very expensive even with the starting/much reduced $2700 price tag (that isn't neccasarily available to everyone). This doesn't include labor etc. Also as has been mentioned Ford is not standing behind it with a warranty. Last, it does't even include the differential cooler which FP and Ford have given up on. Not exactly ideal as I would think even you would admit.

4. You keep saying it is tit for tat. Then why do you keep poking the bear? You have no skin in this and are not going to see it our way just we are not going to see it how you and others that think like you.

1) As Dron so eloquently pointed out, it was about choice. When posed with choosing one over the other, I made a decision that best fit my needs with a plan to pay up and install the hardware post-purchase to get the content that would work for me. Entirely relevant.

2)"Has Ford or any dealer stated that the tech pack car would most likely go limp 10-15 minutes into one session at a HPDE..."

Sure. It may not have been said to you (or others) but they did attempt to get the point across using various forms of media and at track events across the country.



Regarding overheating on the street - that's a problem. No ifs/ands/buts about it. The comparisons to regular Mustang GT performance/limp mode have some merit, I agree. Then again, the GT350 pushes the envelope quite a bit more. That necessitates coolers due to increased heat, rpm, etc. To me that bolsters the argument to make sure you have coolers installed. I do agree, if the issue of limp mode was laid out to prospective buyers they may indeed have reconsidered their decision on one package over another. Ford doesn't normally go into that technical of detail prior to sale but it sure would have been nice with this car.

Out of curiousity - have you ever tracked a mustang before? And have you ever experienced limp mode with your own car?

3) Again, this was about choice. I didn't expect Ford to pay for my "under performing" audio system or the labor to mitigate it. It was either coolers or audio at buying time and I chose coolers.

To be clear, the $2700 transmission from FRP, is indeed available to any prospective GT350 Tech or Base owner. All you have to provide is the requisite proof of ownership, VIN, etc.

The fact that FRP can't assemble a kit (and make it available for sale to the general public) for the rear that integrates with the factory control modules (via new harnesses, IDS programming, etc) is disconcerting. Very much so.

4)" You keep saying it is tit for tat. Then why do you keep poking the bear? You have no skin in this and are not going to see it our way just we are not going to see it how you and others that think like you."

I have never, ever said "tit for tat." That is your perception and expressed in your own choice of words.

Poking the bear? That implies that there is somehow joy in another's pain. Elitism isn't needed here. This is a discussion about hardware. Hardware that some buyer's paid for and some that didn't along with the resultant effect. I have gone out of my way to help prospective kit buyers as well as current Tech/Base owners with their display. How have you?

It isn't fair for you or anyone else to decide who has "skin in the game" and who doesn't. We are all grown men/women that purchased a GT350. Because certain elements don't meet your satisfaction doesn't mean that someone else can't have a different opinion.

 

[Epiphany]

As I've asked @Epiphany many times, but he usually either bypasses my posts or never responds to my or others legitimate points. You guys just say it is a difference of opinion or we should've done this or that.

Many times? Sorry but that simply isn't true. Point out where I haven't gone out of my way to respond to you.

 

[Minn19]

If you want to discuss more i'd be happy to PM you my thoughts, i'd rather have a civilized discussion vs how i can imagine it would spiral out of control on here.

I thought this was civil, but yes, I'm curious so if you want PM me.

 

[JN66]

Thanks for posting. I had always seen many lemon law case stories but being a Canadian I always looked on various forums to see if someone posted a story of having used CAMVAP as we dont have lemon laws technically... yours is the first, and with a good result at that! So thats great to hear. :clap2:

No problem. The process was very civilized and I would encourage all Canadians to use CAMVAP as a resource. I won't post my story on an open forum, but via PM I am happy to provide assistance to anyone that is curious about this route.

 

[dron_jones]

I thought this was civil, but yes, I'm curious so if you want PM me.

It is civilized now, but it only takes one other person to jump in and post something ignorant and things take a nose dive... Normally i'm happy to go down that road but today i just don't have the energy ;)

I will PM you in a bit.

 

[superman07]

You do make some good points and you have shared a lot of technical info, you seem to be a stand up guy.

I always assumed I would eventually add coolers but never in a million years expected a Shelby of any trim to be so underwhelming in warm weather, on any road when pushed even a bit. The lack of even a marginally competent upgrade path in a remotely timely manner just serves to further justify the frustrations.

As a consumer I just make my feelings known with my wallet.

 

[50 Deep]

Round and around this goes. I can't believe you even got [MENTION=19066]Epiphany[/MENTION] involved in this, when all he does is try to provide helpful information.

At this point everyone should realize that Ford is not giving anyone a free upgrade or buying the car back. That leaves 4 simple options.

1)sell it
2)upgrade the transmission and coolers
3)buy the cooler and external pump
4)forget about it and just enjoy he car

Finger pointing will not help you reach your goals of running at the track. Put down the keyboard and pick up a wrench. That is the only way you are going to see progress

 

[Minn19]

1) As Dron so eloquently pointed out, it was about choice. When posed with choosing one over the other, I made a decision that best fit my needs with a plan to pay up and install the hardware post-purchase to get the content that would work for me. Entirely relevant.

2)"Has Ford or any dealer stated that the tech pack car would most likely go limp 10-15 minutes into one session at a HPDE..."

Sure. It may not have been said to you (or others) but they did attempt to get the point across using various forms of media and at track events across the country.



Regarding overheating on the street - that's a problem. No ifs/ands/buts about it. The comparisons to regular Mustang GT performance/limp mode have some merit, I agree. Then again, the GT350 pushes the envelope quite a bit more. That necessitates coolers due to increased heat, rpm, etc. To me that bolsters the argument to make sure you have coolers installed. I do agree, if the issue of limp mode was laid out to prospective buyers they may indeed have reconsidered their decision on one package over another. Ford doesn't normally go into that technical of detail prior to sale but it sure would have been nice with this car.

Out of curiousity - have you ever tracked a mustang before? And have you ever experienced limp mode with your own car?

3) Again, this was about choice. I didn't expect Ford to pay for my "under performing" audio system or the labor to install it. It was either coolers or audio at buying time and I chose coolers.

To be clear, the $2700 transmission from FRP, is indeed available to any prospective GT350 Tech or Base owner. All you have to provide is the requisite proof of ownership, VIN, etc.

The fact that FRP can't assemble a kit (and make it available for sale to the general public) for the rear that integrates with the factory control modules (via new harnesses, IDS programming, etc) is disconcerting. Very much so.

4)" You keep saying it is tit for tat. Then why do you keep poking the bear? You have no skin in this and are not going to see it our way just we are not going to see it how you and others that think like you."

I have never, ever said "tit for tat." That is your perception and expressed in your own choice of words.

Poking the bear? That implies that there is somehow joy in another's pain. Elitism isn't needed here. This is a discussion about hardware. Hardware that some buyer's paid for and some that didn't along with the resultant effect. I have gone out of my way to help prospective kit buyers as well as current Tech/Base owners with their display. How have you?

It isn't fair for you or anyone else to decide who has "skin in the game" and who doesn't. We are all grown men/women that purchased a GT350. Because certain elements don't meet your satisfaction doesn't mean that someone else can have a different opinion.

Many times? Sorry but that simply isn't true. Point out where I haven't gone out of my way to respond to you.

You didn't say it in that way, but in other ways and it comes down to that.

Your radio analogy is simply not an analogical argument. It has not left in a dangerous situation either on the track or on the road.

Yes we are grown men and women and made a decision based on all of the available information. That decision is easily proved wrong in hindsight, but there are many factors as I've stated that led to that decision.

I'm no lawyer, but I have friends who are and consulted the lemon law attorneys about this issue as well. According to their and IMO just logical thinking Ford absolutely withheld info and made very ambiguous advertising claims about the GT350. Why in the hell would anybody buy a base model if they knew it couldn't last on the track for any meaningful length of time? What else would you buy it for?

I would have to dig and I'm not good at that. You could've missed them as we are all busy so I'll just leave it at that. If I'm wrong I truly apologize.

I do appreciate your help in the matter, but yes, I can't get over how Ford has misled people here about the car and then royally botched the promised fixes. It very much smacks of needlessly pouring salt in the wound. So yes, based on this, I have a very hard time seeing how others could have that big of a difference of an opinion. Sometimes right is just right and wrong is wrong. I have a hard time seeing how people think Ford is in the right here. Especially in light of other issues such as the oil cooler lines and whatever is going on with the OPGs and engines grenading far too frequently IMO.

I had a very busy summer and knew the limitations of the car so I just did a couple of Autoxs. I was content to wait until this year to wait for FPs cooling solutions and has been previously stated by me and others there are reasons I'm unsure of what to do now.

Thanks for the response.

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