What impact will it have on 6-speed sales that PP is no longer exclusive to manuals?

[PJR202]

it probably wont be a big impact but it will we have already had people say that if the PP was available in auto they would have went that way and bought manual only to get the PP

Right, which is basically who I was talking about when I mentioned there are exceptions. I just don't see that being a significant number of people in the grand scheme of things.

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[Stormtrooper5.0]

The reasons already mentioned in this thread. But that "sensation" and feeling of connectedness and involvement with the car is the single biggest reason for people's preference of manuals, so you can't just brush it aside with "other than that".

The other reasons, if I'm to repeat them are:
1) cheaper to buy ($1-3K or so, depending on the car)
2) usually cheaper to maintain long term
3) usually better resale value these days
4) they often sound better
5) basically an anti-theft device given how few people can drive stick these days.
6) they're just cool. chicks dig em, too. :first:

:amen:

 

[Angry50]

The reasons already mentioned in this thread. But that "sensation" and feeling of connectedness and involvement with the car is the single biggest reason for people's preference of manuals, so you can't just brush it aside with "other than that".

The other reasons, if I'm to repeat them are:
1) cheaper to buy ($1-3K or so, depending on the car)
2) usually cheaper to maintain long term
3) usually better resale value these days
4) they often sound better
5) basically an anti-theft device given how few people can drive stick these days.
6) they're just cool. chicks dig em, too. :first:

Plus, again, I'm not sure that even this 10-speed is going to really fix the issues we're talking about with other paddle shift autos. Guess we'll see.

Of course, in terms of objective, measurable, practical value in every day driving, there isn't much advantage to a stick. But that's not what it all comes down to. And as you can see from many of my other posts (including one in this very thread about autonomous cars), I'm not a luddite. I just appreciate what manuals have to offer.

these issues listed are relative. and of opinion it seems as i recall someone saying manuals will cost more but others say autos are more.. maintenance costs is relative considering if you leave stock both cars can go 100k+ with out touching the transmission. other than maybe fluid. i am not sure how a transmission "sounds". but the GTR is super popular among all types of racers because it performs and the paddles are some of the best that give you control and remove some room for error. . im all for the "feel" of manual, i even drive a manual. i have no problem with an automatic if i can make it do what i want.. i hate autos for the issue of not shifting properly and the paddles on basic cars like the current s550 suck.

 

[5pointOh]

Considering the 10 speed was benchmarked against the Porsche PDK and beats it in upshifts, at least in the GM application, I am sure that the Ford version for the Mustang will be similar if not better.
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/...ages/news/us/en/2016/may/0511-10speed-gm.html

 

[RocketGuy3]

these issues listed are relative. and of opinion it seems as i recall someone saying manuals will cost more but others say autos are more.. maintenance costs is relative considering if you leave stock both cars can go 100k+ with out touching the transmission. other than maybe fluid. i am not sure how a transmission "sounds". but the GTR is super popular among all types of racers because it performs and the paddles are some of the best that give you control and remove some room for error. . im all for the "feel" of manual, i even drive a manual. i have no problem with an automatic if i can make it do what i want.. i hate autos for the issue of not shifting properly and the paddles on basic cars like the current s550 suck.

With a couple exceptions, most of the things I listed are not opinions. But in any case, obviously a lot of this comes down to personal preference, which is why I said I get why some people prefer automatics. The point is, whether or not they are all measurable facts, there are several reasons to buy a manual transmission. Again, the single most important reason to buy a manual is not measurable.

In terms of maintenance costs, with enough data, I'm sure we could prove who's right there one way or another. I will admit, though, that it's probably easier and less expensive to beat on a modern auto than a clutch, generally speaking.

And I'm not sure where you get your info on the GTR. I hear so many terrible things about that car, and I didn't really enjoy the one I drove that much, other than the kick-in-the-ass acceleration. MotorTrend has blasted it on several occasions. Jeremy Clarkson listed it as one of his 10 worst cars of 2015 and 2016 (one of the only performance cars on the list). Like anything, there are people who like it, but most reviews I've seen have criticized it for exactly the reasons manual drivers criticize automatics: fast, but boring. It's a performance car, but it's not a sports car.

Meanwhile, bringing back the stick is exactly the reason a car like the Cayman GT4 had so much demand and got so much praise.

 

[cbrookre]

With a couple exceptions, most of the things I listed are not opinions. But in any case, obviously a lot of this comes down to personal preference, which is why I said I get why some people prefer automatics. The point is, whether or not they are all measurable facts, there are several reasons to buy a manual transmission. Again, the single most important reason to buy a manual is not measurable.

In terms of maintenance costs, with enough data, I'm sure we could prove who's right there one way or another. I will admit, though, that it's probably easier and less expensive to beat on a modern auto than a clutch, generally speaking.

And I'm not sure where you get your info on the GTR. I hear so many terrible things about that car, and I didn't really enjoy the one I drove that much, other than the kick-in-the-ass acceleration. MotorTrend has blasted it on several occasions. Jeremy Clarkson listed it as one of his 10 worst cars of 2015 and 2016 (one of the only performance cars on the list). Like anything, there are people who like it, but most reviews I've seen have criticized it for exactly the reasons manual drivers criticize automatics: fast, but boring. It's a performance car, but it's not a sports car.

Meanwhile, bringing back the stick is exactly the reason a car like the Cayman GT4 had so much demand and got so much praise.

I think you get it, I did not get a manual because of the performance, because of the reliability, because of the fuel efficiency. I got the manual because I wanted to drive a manual, it just feels right in a car like this. Other's opinions don't really matter in this equation, it was purely a matter of preference to me. Even if the cost of the manual was additional, I still would have gotten it.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

If you want to improve % raise the driving age to 18.

We need rookie plates on cars owned by or insured for drivers with less than 2 years experience or anyone with at fault accidents on their record. Harder for them to hit us if we are forewarned.

 

[Angry50]

i think i should just stop replying. lol i thought the whole point was that the auto PP would impact the sales of Manuals. i think we can agree it will impact to some degree?

then someone tried to state the 10 speed was garbage when that is an opinion as we dont even know much about it but seemed to get good review in the new zl1.

i never disputed the fact that some people just like to drive a manual no matter what.. thats why i stated before some people just like to row gears and some kids think its cool..

manual is more of an enthusiasts preference when considering most people buying cars are not "driving enthusiasts"

i think for most part we agree though..just seem to be on different pages lol

 

[WaltA]

5) basically an anti-theft device given how few people can drive stick these days.

Police, "We recovered your Mustang. The bad news is that the only gear not stripped out is reverse. The good news is that the clutch is still in excellent shape. They must not have use it at all."

:lol:

 

[wireeater]

Well. This thread ended up the exact same place every other thread that had the word automatic and manual in the same post.

People say "I would have a PP if it was in an auto". That means that it would have 0 impacts on 6 speed sales because they never purchased a PP to begin with. That only means the people who didn't purchase a PP will purchase one now and those WHO did purchase a PP with a 6 speed will probably continue to because they purchased it for that reason. If my next Mustang is going to be an auto, it won't be in a PP package because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The better question which maybe I missed because I skipped 98% of this thread over the bickering of auto/manual is, for those who purchased the PP today, how many would have purchased it with an auto instead.

Sales for manual might stay the same where as sales in autos may incline but I don't see them really declining. People already had the option of Manual/Auto and they still choose manual for a reason, because they wanted to shift gears.

 

[Angry50]

Well. This thread ended up the exact same place every other thread that had the word automatic and manual in the same post.

People say "I would have a PP if it was in an auto". That means that it would have 0 impacts on 6 speed sales because they never purchased a PP to begin with. That only means the people who didn't purchase a PP will purchase one now and those WHO did purchase a PP with a 6 speed will probably continue to because they purchased it for that reason. If my next Mustang is going to be an auto, it won't be in a PP package because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The better question which maybe I missed because I skipped 98% of this thread over the bickering of auto/manual is, for those who purchased the PP today, how many would have purchased it with an auto instead.

Sales for manual might stay the same where as sales in autos may incline but I don't see them really declining. People already had the option of Manual/Auto and they still choose manual for a reason, because they wanted to shift gears.

in this post we literally had at least 2 people in this thread that bought the PP say they would have gotten the auto PP if it was an option.. that would be 2 less manual and 2 more auto..

 

[c-rizzle]

Manuals are fun, and make you FEEL faster. But modern Autos are actually faster, and when programmed with proper instructions can be better for anything (track or DD).

I would definitely get the new 10 speed auto + Performance Package. Though since I just bought a '17 PP I doubt I'll be upgrading anytime soon.

It would be nice for my wife to be able to drive the car every once in a while too. (she can't drive stick) She used to like driving my '14 GT Vert with auto.

 

[Strokerswild]

I was really torn whether to order the PP that I now own, or order a premium GT with the auto and 20" wheels. Cost of either was within a few hundred bucks. It really came down to the better PP hardware winning out, plus I prefer a manual for weekend toys.

However, given the option, I probably would have gone auto/PP even with the price bump of both. A buddy bought a '16 GT/CS with an auto and loves it, and he thought he would have preferred a manual at first.

 

[TexasRebel]

modern Autos are actually faster, and when programmed with proper instructions can be better for anything

Anything except shifting when the operator wants it to. ;)

 

[5pointOh]

Anything except shifting when the operator wants it to. ;)

Thats shitty programming. The 10 speed shifts faster than the Porsche PDK so there should be no reason why driver input wouldnt be direct on the 10 speed vs the "suggestion" on the current trans.

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