Mustang Hybrid (S650) Announced, Debuts in 2020

[moubayed]

This thread has officially gone full retard.

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[Norm Peterson]

All these calls to retire the Mustang name is utterly asinine and selfish. If you don't like the changes, don't buy it. Wanting future owners to not have a Mustang because it doesn't fit your idea of what a true "Mustang" is petulant, immature and selfish.

Grow up.

Over the years, many automotive names have been retired. What makes this time so special? Especially when the 'new' promises to be so much different from the 'old'?

You might heed your own personally-directed advice . . .


Norm

 

[spectremotorsports]

This ↑↑↑

And anybody who thinks there can be no adverse global consequences to the level of solar and wind power generation required to supply all these electric cars in lieu of fossil fuels might do well to think on it some more.


Norm

I'd absolutely love to hear the "adverse global consequences" of solar power. I've always been curious as to why there's so much pushback on things like this. There's nothing wrong with progress. Fair enough if you don't think ICE cars are having an adverse effect on the environment. What is there to gain from fighting increases in efficiency and sustainability anyways? On top of that I for one would welcome the instant torque that comes from an electric motor paired with an efficient ICE engine. I have yet to hear any 918 or P1 owners complaining that their car has no soul or is disappointing to drive.

 

[K-Roll302]

I'd absolutely love to hear the "adverse global consequences" of solar power. I've always been curious as to why there's so much pushback on things like this. There's nothing wrong with progress. Fair enough if you don't think ICE cars are having an adverse effect on the environment. What is there to gain from fighting increases in efficiency and sustainability anyways? On top of that I for one would welcome the instant torque that comes from an electric motor paired with an efficient ICE engine. I have yet to hear any 918 or P1 owners complaining that their car has no soul or is disappointing to drive.

I've yet to see a single 918 or P1 driving, since cars like that seem to always be garage exhibits. Even then, I seriously doubt anyone would complain about such an expensive and complex machine. :lol:

But I do see your point. :cheers:

My only concerns with hybridization w/ICE, is the running costs, maintenance costs present/future, long term reliability, and whether or not owners can actually work on their cars themselves with such complex tech and systems. I don't think we can use million dollar hyper cars for reference here because I seriously doubt any have logged any high miles nor has any of the tech trickled down to lower price point vehicles, so we've no idea the costs to run and maintain yet. I also like working on my cars, and it seems that there are less and less things that owners can do themselves like in decades past. My reference point, the thing's I can do on my '74 911 can't be done so easily on modern equivalents, or are so complicated and not worth the time that people just bring them to dealerships.

 

[68fbjjz109]

I'd absolutely love to hear the "adverse global consequences" of solar power. I've always been curious as to why there's so much pushback on things like this. There's nothing wrong with progress. Fair enough if you don't think ICE cars are having an adverse effect on the environment. What is there to gain from fighting increases in efficiency and sustainability anyways? On top of that I for one would welcome the instant torque that comes from an electric motor paired with an efficient ICE engine. I have yet to hear any 918 or P1 owners complaining that their car has no soul or is disappointing to drive.

There are negative aspects to solar, however that is most related to manufacturing processes, land use, supplemental water cooling if needed, and emissons associated with carbon dixode produced during there transportion.

 

[spectremotorsports]

I've yet to see a single 918 or P1 driving, since cars like that seem to always be garage exhibits. Even then, I seriously doubt anyone would complain about such an expensive and complex machine. :lol:

But I do see your point. :cheers:

My only concerns with hybridization w/ICE, is the running costs, maintenance costs present/future, long term reliability, and whether or not owners can actually work on their cars themselves with such complex tech and systems. I don't think we can use million dollar hyper cars for reference here because I seriously doubt any have logged any high miles nor has any of the tech trickled down to lower price point vehicles, so we've no idea the costs to run and maintain yet. I also like working on my cars, and it seems that there are less and less things that owners can do themselves like in decades past. My reference point, the thing's I can do on my '74 911 can't be done so easily on modern equivalents, or are so complicated and not worth the time that people just bring them to dealerships.

I get where you're coming from, and as tough of a pill as it is to swallow, I've come to the conclusion that us wrenching on our own cars is on the way out with anything new and will be limited to older and classic cars as folks like us are in the minority. As far as cost to repair and maintain, the more mainstream this technology becomes, the less expensive it will be, just like any other tech, it's just a matter of getting to that point. It's not as if our cars are anywhere near as inexpensive as they used to be to fix seeing as how a pair of headlights alone cost over $2k for OEM.

The way I see it we are on the cusp of a very large evolution of the way sports/performance cars work, which is going to introduce an entirely new threshold for performance and capabilities, and as irritated as I am that I'm not going to be able to work on them myself, I'm more excited about the potential upsides.

 

[OX1]

I'd absolutely love to hear the "adverse global consequences" of solar power. I've always been curious as to why there's so much pushback on things like this.

Right off the bat, on a day like today in NJ, solar is 100% useless. So the entire electrical grid/pwer generation has to be maintained/upgraded as if solar does not exist. So those without solar have subsidized the one's who do and yet we also still have to pay for the entire electric grid.

That, and if EVERYONE had solar tied to the grid, to allow you to sell power back. You better hope that every house uses what they produce at the peak, or you have to figure out where to direct the extra power during the day so you can use it at night.

Maybe you can redistribute with different times zones or different climates (north vs south, on any given day lets say), but what does that national grid look like (compared to what it is today).

There is always batteries for non solar charging hours, but then there is no way you convince me all those batteries in my car and now my house, are really better for the environment overall.

 

[68fbjjz109]

Right off the bat, on a day like today in NJ, solar is 100% useless. So the entire electrical grid/pwer generation has to be maintained/upgraded as if solar does not exist. So those without solar have subsidized the one's who do and yet we also still have to pay for the entire electric grid.

That, and if EVERYONE had solar tied to the grid, to allow you to sell power back. You better hope that every house uses what they produce at the peak, or you have to figure out where to direct the extra power during the day so you can use it at night.

Maybe you can redistribute with different times zones or different climates (north vs south, on any given day lets say), but what does that national grid look like (compared to what it is today).

There is always batteries for non solar charging hours, but then there is no way you convince me all those batteries in my car and now my house, are really better for the environment overall.

Just like stocks, you diversify to wade through tough times.

A cocktail of clean energy solutions is needed.

 

[z460]

So i have been doing some reading ford going to a 4.8 V8 they say it might be in the F150 and the Mustang GT in 2018

 

[K-Roll302]

I get where you're coming from, and as tough of a pill as it is to swallow, I've come to the conclusion that us wrenching on our own cars is on the way out with anything new and will be limited to older and classic cars as folks like us are in the minority. As far as cost to repair and maintain, the more mainstream this technology becomes, the less expensive it will be, just like any other tech, it's just a matter of getting to that point. It's not as if our cars are anywhere near as inexpensive as they used to be to fix seeing as how a pair of headlights alone cost over $2k for OEM.

The way I see it we are on the cusp of a very large evolution of the way sports/performance cars work, which is going to introduce an entirely new threshold for performance and capabilities, and as irritated as I am that I'm not going to be able to work on them myself, I'm more excited about the potential upsides.

That's all the more reason for myself to be disinterested in owning such a vehicle. As such, there's a bounty of used cars for me to look at in the future. The early adopters of the tech and vehicles will certainly be paying the most (i.e. 918, P1, LaFezza), and even the first of the lower priced hybrid performance cars. It's tough to say how long it'll take for the price to come down to a point where everyone who wants one can afford one. This will be a start, but this could be "SVO-syndrome" revisited. Where the tech is so new and outperforms the other models (V8/TTV6 GT), but the cost is so much, that few people buy into it and it isn't financially worth it to continue with. Just how the SVO outperformed the GT in every way when it was new, but was priced so much higher than the GT, it only lasted a few years. So the question is, how many people are expected to buy into the hybrid Mustang?

Another thing to note, Porsche will be doing this with the 911 in 2019, but it makes sense for them with the 918 being a representation of what can be done. However, Ford doesn't have a halo-car with the technology to show or prove that they can make an exciting hybrid performance car, let alone, a hybrid performance Mustang, if this Mustang is to be a performance car or a fuel economy car. I see it as a big risk to do what they're doing, but I applaud them for doing so.

I will say that all things considered, inflation especially, one could argue that the price of parts for DIY maintenance and modification hasn't changed too much, or whether or not people's salaries or wages have caught up or are with inflation, but that's another debate.

There are large revolutions and evolution going on in the automotive world that we can't change. I'm not so opposed to the idea that I'll call it heresy, but I'm not too sure of it either; we'll just have to wait and see. However, hybridization isn't my main concern going into the future, but that's another topic for another time.

 

[spectremotorsports]

Just like stocks, you diversify to wade through tough times.

A cocktail of clean energy solutions is needed.

^^^^ This is the correct answer...

 

[68fbjjz109]

I will say that all things considered, inflation especially, one could argue that the price of parts for DIY maintenance and modification hasn't changed too much, or whether or not people's salaries or wages have caught up or are with inflation, but that's another debate.

There are large revolutions and evolution going on in the automotive world that we can't change. I'm unopposed to the idea that I'll call it heresy, but I'm not too sure of it either; we'll just have to wait and see. However, hybridization isn't my main concern going into the future, but that's another topic for another time.

Cars historically have remand consistant with inflation. Wages are the issue.

The best thing about hybrids, and fuel efficient vehicles in general is they allow for performance cell cars to exist in terms of regulalations. There is a market for them, and this technology will extend the life of the V8.

 

[OX1]

Just like stocks, you diversify to wade through tough times.

A cocktail of clean energy solutions is needed.

There are no tough times, unless you mean gov't mandated.
Please enlighten us on this cocktail of "clean" energy solutions.

 

[Conedodger]

It is not surprising to me that solar has been drug into the hybrid mustang discuss. I think that a lot of the push back is because most people just don't understand the impact and implications. I think I am in a perfect position to explain it to those of you who will listen. Let me explain.

First, solar should not be dismissed because you have some axe to grind with environmentalists. If you dismiss it and are not willing to do it it is just money out of your pocket. And don't be fooled it's all about money and nothing else. Let me explain my situation so that you understand.

First, I have a large solar system on my house. 10kwh to be specific. Second I own two plug in hybrids. One for me, one for the wife. They are both C max energi. Fully charged they go about 21 miles on electricity only. Lastly I have a big ish house with a pool two AC units bla bla bla.

Before solar and plug in hybrids our monthly bill for gas and electricity was about $700 a month. Now with this technology at our household our monthly gas and electric bill is about $50. That is a change of $650 a month. The only down side is that we have to drive dumpy commuters.
When ford builds the S650 you better believe we will have two of them in our garage. Being able to commute in a Mustang will be amazing.

We have had the solar and the cars for 4 years. The solar cost 25k. About the price of a compact car. In 4 years it has saved us $31,200 in electricity and fuel. The same system today would cost about 20k. So it's even cheaper.

As for the grid and solar. We over produce every year by about 2mwh. That is electricity that our utility takes from me and sells to my neighbors. They pay me 3.4 cents per kwh and charge my neighbors 14 cents per kwh. So don't give us crap about using the grid. I loose 10.6 cents for every kwh I provide.

Don't do solar for the green environment. Do solar for the green in your wallet. Being able to do all this in a Mustang will be amazing.

 

[extrachrispy]

"Don't do solar for the green environment"

Indeed. The toxicity of manufacture is pretty far up there, but the greenies just pretend that's not a problem because it's being done in China.

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