Tune with No Lift Shift (NLS)

[robertwsimpson]

hm interesting.

I agree, probably not for the masses, but for those determined to learn how to do it, it can be done without a tune. on this vehicle though, the shifter itself is becoming more important to me, as I have already hit a gate while trying to get to third. I've calmed down the 2-3 shift for the time being. Something is moving around and becoming very misaligned under heavy load. Then again, the 2-3 shift has always been the bane of my existence. I do think that something to either remount the linkage from the shifter to the transmission or at least steady it would help greatly. More reasons to spend money, as if I needed them.

To address the OP's question, I think the SCT tuner would help, as you can set 2 rev limiters, which would essentially do exactly what is wanted. If worried, I would set the neutral rev limiter slightly lower than the shift point.

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[jasonstang]

That's what I thought it was.


So, why do you need a tune for this? As mentioned, I do it all the time.

1-2 shift, I lift to about 50% throttle probably, to try and prevent wheel spin
2-3 shift, probably 50% again, but just because this shift takes slightly longer than the "pulling" shifts
3-4 shift, no lift
4-5 shift, no lift, but I haven't done that in this car yet, since that is going WAY faster than I've had need to thus far.

I've never had an issue in any vehicle I've driven.


Also, can you tell me specifically what the tune is changing during the shift?

The tune closes the throttle body and holds RPM when it sees clutch is being pressed otherwise your engine would go all the way to redline without this feature.

 

[newkidnik]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. Gibbo, thanks for the tuner comparison as well. That's very helpful. Based on the suggestions here, I seem to be leaning toward AED (still) or Lund. I may be able to program a neutral rev limiter with AED's SCT. We'll see what happens. It's too snowy to worry about it all right now, but I will likely purchase a PMAS during beefcake's sale, and that'll need a nice tune for the spring season.

I too know how to powershift and have done it on previous cars, but I'm a bit hesitant with the MT82. It doesn't leave me with the greatest feeling. NLS is a cool feature of PP1 (the only cool feature), and it would be nice to see it on another tune, but yes, one could just do it themselves. I like it because it's just one less thing to worry about when you're at the track.

 

[Gibbo205]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. Gibbo, thanks for the tuner comparison as well. That's very helpful. Based on the suggestions here, I seem to be leaning toward AED (still) or Lund. I may be able to program a neutral rev limiter with AED's SCT. We'll see what happens. It's too snowy to worry about it all right now, but I will likely purchase a PMAS during beefcake's sale, and that'll need a nice tune for the spring season.

I too know how to powershift and have done it on previous cars, but I'm a bit hesitant with the MT82. It doesn't leave me with the greatest feeling. NLS is a cool feature of PP1 (the only cool feature), and it would be nice to see it on another tune, but yes, one could just do it themselves. I like it because it's just one less thing to worry about when you're at the track.

PMAS CAI: Lund they have best tune for it.
No lift shift: JDM is the only option!

Why don't you go GT 350 CAI, Roush CAI (without insert) and get the JDM tune? PMAS CAI is ugly and worth about 2-3WHP over the 350 CAI on a cold day, on a warm day the 350 CAI makes more as it seals better.

 

[newkidnik]

PMAS CAI: Lund they have best tune for it.
No lift shift: JDM is the only option!

Why don't you go GT 350 CAI, Roush CAI (without insert) and get the JDM tune? PMAS CAI is ugly and worth about 2-3WHP over the 350 CAI on a cold day, on a warm day the 350 CAI makes more as it seals better.

Gibbo, I'm surprised to hear you say this. I know you were happy with your PMAS. I still have the big mouth and GT350 snorkel sitting and waiting. I was also planning on opening up the bottom grille and using the brake duct method you outlined, if not the under tray. With those mods, the GT350 CAI still maintains lower IATs?

 

[Gibbo205]

Gibbo, I'm surprised to hear you say this. I know you were happy with your PMAS. I still have the big mouth and GT350 snorkel sitting and waiting. I was also planning on opening up the bottom grille and using the brake duct method you outlined, if not the under tray. With those mods, the GT350 CAI still maintains lower IATs?

The GT 350 CAI does not require such modifications to keep the IAT's down though, the scoop I did in my splitter/under tray I no longer run, as no need for it with 350 CAI.

The duct I put in the lower front grill I still run as be shame to not make use of it and it helps throw in more fresh air but this duct would even be good for stock air box, though again not strictly required for lower IAT's just more flow.

If your willing to do the IAT mods the PMAS is great, but for me the 350 CAI achieves the same end results, cost less and looks a damn site nicer. Plus its smaller 105mm maf tube no doubt helps with smoother throttle too compared to the PMAS 120mm tube. Bigger is not always better! ;)

 

[newkidnik]

The GT 350 CAI does not require such modifications to keep the IAT's down though, the scoop I did in my splitter/under tray I no longer run, as no need for it with 350 CAI.

The duct I put in the lower front grill I still run as be shame to not make use of it and it helps throw in more fresh air but this duct would even be good for stock air box, though again not strictly required for lower IAT's just more flow.

If your willing to do the IAT mods the PMAS is great, but for me the 350 CAI achieves the same end results, cost less and looks a damn site nicer. Plus its smaller 105mm maf tube no doubt helps with smoother throttle too compared to the PMAS 120mm tube. Bigger is not always better! ;)

Welp, you just sold me on the GT350 CAI. I assume the GT350 TB less so because of the drivability issues?

 

[tom_sprecher]

You only got 6hp on pp1?? We have same setup, I thought it felt much better all-around when I did the tune. Plus LMr got 15hp..
Maybe in another year and half when warranty up I'll do Lund

The difference between 6HP increase and a 15HP increase could possibly be due to different dynos, weather, noise, who knows. It's like 2.5% of the total WHP. Also, butt dynos are notoriously inaccurate. ;)

 

[robertwsimpson]

The tune closes the throttle body and holds RPM when it sees clutch is being pressed otherwise your engine would go all the way to redline without this feature.

I'm confused. If you disconnect the engine from the wheels (clutch in) and close the throttle plate, what keeps the engine spinning? Am I missing something?

 

[Gibbo205]

Welp, you just sold me on the GT350 CAI. I assume the GT350 TB less so because of the drivability issues?

My car just drives much nicer on the stock TB, it seems to punch harder as well. For me all the 350 TB offered was a little more snappiness if you went WOT as lot as 1500rpm and it was more responsive in wet mode.

With the stock TB the car is smooth, even in sport/race modes, wet mode is still fine and it still snaps hard on WOT throttle down low, but if I go WOT above 3000rpm it snaps even harder than it did on the 350 TB so it feels way more stout, of course it won't be but when a car feels stronger it is more fun even though it is actually no faster than it was previous.

But biggest bonus is just the fact the car drives like stock again, well better in fact as throttle is more responsive but remains buttery smooth with no surge, bucking, jerking me around etc.

Lund have come back telling me my car in last lot of logs is spot on and are amazing how my car is holding 29-30 degrees on pump gas, stating they wished they could get pump gas so good in the USA, I responded with I wish we could get E85 haha.

Remember 350 CAI is also neater, it loses one of the vacuum lines so you can essentially install 350 mani and 350 CAI in exact same way as its done on a GT 350, I also have FRPP separators on both side for the full OEM finish.

I shall get back on dyno end of this week or early next week to do the compare.

 

[newkidnik]

My car just drives much nicer on the stock TB, it seems to punch harder as well. For me all the 350 TB offered was a little more snappiness if you went WOT as lot as 1500rpm and it was more responsive in wet mode.

With the stock TB the car is smooth, even in sport/race modes, wet mode is still fine and it still snaps hard on WOT throttle down low, but if I go WOT above 3000rpm it snaps even harder than it did on the 350 TB so it feels way more stout, of course it won't be but when a car feels stronger it is more fun even though it is actually no faster than it was previous.

But biggest bonus is just the fact the car drives like stock again, well better in fact as throttle is more responsive but remains buttery smooth with no surge, bucking, jerking me around etc.

Lund have come back telling me my car in last lot of logs is spot on and are amazing how my car is holding 29-30 degrees on pump gas, stating they wished they could get pump gas so good in the USA, I responded with I wish we could get E85 haha.

Remember 350 CAI is also neater, it loses one of the vacuum lines so you can essentially install 350 mani and 350 CAI in exact same way as its done on a GT 350, I also have FRPP separators on both side for the full OEM finish.

I shall get back on dyno end of this week or early next week to do the compare.

So I did a little bit of research because I'm super partial to closed airbox intakes. What about aFe or Airaid? I found American Muscle tests for the Roush CAI and the Airaid enclosed intake, and it seems like the Airaid made more peak and under the curve gains than the Roush CAI. Of course, both intakes were dynoed with a tune. My other observation is that the Airaid's tube is smaller than the Roush? Is there an enclosed CAI with a larger than stock tube diameter?

Roush dyno, +16hp/26tq peak, and up to +28hp/28tq under the curve:

The Airaid box shows peak gains for +25hp/22tq, and gains under the curve of up to +35hp/33tq.

So the Airaid makes more at peak and under the curve (seemingly a tick more down low too?). What do you think? Obviously, this is just one company, but 16 vs. 25 peak is a noticeable difference. Cost aside, anyone know why the Airaid/sealed box isn't a design/intake of choice?

I'm confused. If you disconnect the engine from the wheels (clutch in) and close the throttle plate, what keeps the engine spinning? Am I missing something?

I don't think the throttle plate closes, the ecu just stops the engine from revving more than a certain rpm whereas in a powershift the motor would continue to rev as you complete your shift.

 

[Gibbo205]

For me the 350 CAI really seems to have no issue with IAT's as it obviously seals well against hood and the snorkel works well.

On that comparison did both CAI's have insert removed and were they both done by same tuner and fully dialled in ideally done on same dyno in similar conditions?

Roush, Airaid, GT 350 are all nice quality units.

 

[newkidnik]

For me the 350 CAI really seems to have no issue with IAT's as it obviously seals well against hood and the snorkel works well.

On that comparison did both CAI's have insert removed and were they both done by same tuner and fully dialled in ideally done on same dyno in similar conditions?

Roush, Airaid, GT 350 are all nice quality units.

To my knowledge, yes. They were done by the same company that tuned for both individual intakes. A baseline was also done before each intake and retune as well, so I'm just comparing the deltas.

They're on youtube:

Roush test


Airaid test


In terms of closed units, I've found Airaid, aFe, Mishimoto, Injen, and a couple others I can't recall. I'm trying to figure out what gives a sealed box option an advantage over another. I suppose it's depends on the tube, filter size, and box volume. All seem to have a snorkel.

Edit: The Injen seems to have done even better. +28hp/26tq peak and up to +35hp/35tq under the curve.

[ame]

This intake seems to have a unique filter design. It reminds me of the conical aFe filter I ran when I was on the stock airbox in my S197. It also keeps part of the sound tube installed, so no need to dig around the fire wall, which I prefer for ease of stock reinstall and intake removal.

Seems interesting.

 

[5.oh]

I'd not want to do what your doing, something could get damaged, particular if the driver gets it wrong, am sure you are fine but no lift shift is for the masses and having it means you can't get it wrong.

No idea what the ECU is doing, you would need someone else to explain that, probably best JDM comment and they may not wish to divulge how they do it as I believe only Ford and JDM offer "no lift shift" strategy in their tunes.

All I will say is when I did it, the car does not rev/bounce of the limiter when you clutch in, but the revs did not seem to fall either and when I clutched out it continued accelerating with no apparent delay and it was super smooth, just a minor chirp from tyres.

The ZR1 had no lift shift from the factory.

 

[GTBOB]

Edit: The Injen seems to have done even better. +28hp/26tq peak and up to +35hp/35tq under the curve.

This intake seems to have a unique filter design. It reminds me of the conical aFe filter I ran when I was on the stock airbox in my S197. It also keeps part of the sound tube installed, so no need to dig around the fire wall, which I prefer for ease of stock reinstall and intake removal.

Seems interesting.

I run the INJEN and I'm pretty happy with it. I bought my last year as soon as they were released. Not sure about that sound tube attachment because mine has no provision for it:shrug:.

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