VTT drop in LPFP upgrade announcement!

[VargasTurboTech]

Hey guys! So in our S2 TS testing we were finding the stock LPFP pressure was dropping into the 60's psi wise when it was commanded to stay above 100psi. This is a clear sign of a fuel pump not being up to the task that is being asked of it. Namely supplying enough fuel for 8 injectors, on 100% E85, for over 450WHP.

What this means is, the HPFP is not being provided the fuel pressure its needs to flow the fuel required. This compounds the issue already seen of the HPFP's falling off on the initial TQ hit, and up top. Going to a LPFP upgrade alone wont fix this, but it helps tremendously by keeping fuel pressure stable to everything its feeding.

So what exactly is the pump, and why is it better. Good question. What we do is buy brand new factory buckets, and install a brand new 450LPH E85 certified pump into them, using ONLY factory style E85 approve flex tube, NO RUBBER is used anywhere (see attached photos). This is not the average 450LPH you can get for under $100 this is different model with a 140psi pressure relief instead of the normal 90 psi or so. We found the EBM commands so much pressure, it would pop the pressure relief of the standard pump, and you still see pressure drops. With the high relief pump it holds commanded perfectly. We built a flow test bench in house, when building these to test the flow rates of different pumps, we will include results of those tests below.

How hard it is to install? Also a great question. Simple, you can literally swap the bucket in 15 minutes, with a couple hand tools. Since its a factory bucket, you simply pull the old one out, and put the new one in. One hose connection, one plug, done. There are some people out there selling "surge tank" fuel systems for these cars. The first question is why? The factory bucket is a built in surge tank, and hold as much more fuel than aftermarket surge tanks, and does so right in your fuel tank. It also is self filling by using a siphon pump we keep intact when upgrading the pump. This means you never run out of fuel, not on hard cornering, not under hard acceleration.

Whats the price on the pump. Well we have two. The first we call the single shot, and it is a single pump, drop in bucket, the second is twin pumps in the factory bucket. We are still working on that one. details are as follow

Single shot LPFP bucket flows enough for 500-550WHP on 100%: $599
(Available now on the website, about 7 days for shipping.)
Double Shot LPFP bucket flows enough for 700-800WHP on 100% E85 $1199 (not yet available)

If you want to return us your old bucket we will refund you $75, as we will be offering rebuilt buckets at some point.

Both of these will be drop in buckets, the double shot may require line upgrades, etc. We are still working on that one.

Here are some things we found in the logs, as well as flow rates of the pumps.

Log 1 shoes stock LPFP

Log 2 same tune back to back but with single shot installed.

Log 3 is the stock log just with AFR, and trims added. You can see they are fine.

Log 4, NO TUNING CHANGES! The car went DEAD RICH, so bad I had to leave the dyno room cause of the unburned fuel. We had to pull 30% Aux fuel out across the board just to get the trims, and AFR's back in line. That's how much head room the pump is adding. The factory DI system was able to do that much more work without the help of the Aux system. This means a more efficient burn, and better knock reduction.

Lastly we have pump flow numbers. We do 3 tests. A flow test with no pressure, which is what fuel pump manufactures rate their pumps at, we did 60 psi, then 72 psi. Adding pressure to a pump really kills its flow. The stock pump gets very weak at high pressures. We will post The double shot numbers once we finish its testing.

Here are the results.

Stock LPFP:
No pressure [FONT=&quot] 350LPH at 13.5V
60 PSI 240LPH at 13.5V
72 Psi 210LPH at 13.5V


VTT Single Shot:
No Pressure 465LPH at 13.5V 33% more flow than stock
60 PSI 315LPH at 13.5V 30% more flow than stock
72 PSI 300LPH at 13.5V 43% more flow than stock

Here is a decent calculator is you are interesting in gauges LPH requirements for horsepower. Its not perfect, but it gives a ball park.

[/FONT] http://www.raceworks.com.au/calculators/fuel-pump-calculator/

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[JungleG1337]

What happen to people who occasionally run 93? Does this stay the same?

 

[VargasTurboTech]

What happen to people who occasionally run 93? Does this stay the same?

Nothing happens. If you strictly run pump, the stock LPFP is prob sufficient for you. This is for people running ethanol say above E60, and pushing 350WHP+. This pump will run anything. If you ran race gas this single pump would be good for over 700WHP

 

[Fridge]

I saw you guys mentioned 8 injectors. Will this help those with just 4 injectors?

 

[VargasTurboTech]

Honestly do not understand your question. If you plan to run ethanol, and go for over 350whp. You need to upgrade your lpfp. If that is not you, you can leave the pump stock.

 

[mtpavelka]

I saw you guys mentioned 8 injectors. Will this help those with just 4 injectors?

I think I know what Fridge is getting at. If I am right, I was thinking the same thing. If I am understanding the results correctly, you say the Single Shot created 20% - 30% more capacity from the DI Injectors. As a result you had to cut back on supplemental fuel by the same amount.
Following that logic, if 350 whp is the limit on ethanol then it seems by installing the Single Shot one would be able to get a another 70 whp on DI alone because of the 20% headroom created by the LPFP upgrade.
The math might not be that simple. But it appears it would raise the limit on ethanol fuel.

 

[VargasTurboTech]

Think you guys are over complicating this. As stated unless you are running high ethanol percentages this is not needed. A fuel pump never makes any power, it simply allows more power to be made safely. I will say it again. If you are running pump fuel only. This is not needed, if you are running high ethanol percentages, and going for 350 or more WHP, you need to upgrade your LPFP. It does not matter how many injectors you have on the car.

 

[Juben]

I'll ask it this way because this is going to be everyone's question that pops into this thread. I already know the answer but I'll let you answer it since it's your thread.

Can you install your Single Shot LPFP upgrade, with an otherwise stock fuel system, and run full e85 or higher ethanol content, like an e50 blend, without having to upgrade anything else?

That's what they're asking, more or less.

 

[VargasTurboTech]

I'll ask it this way because this is going to be everyone's question that pops into this thread. I already know the answer but I'll let you answer it since it's your thread.

Can you install your Single Shot LPFP upgrade, with an otherwise stock fuel system, and run full e85 or higher ethanol content, like an e50 blend, without having to upgrade anything else?

That's what they're asking, more or less.

Of course, you do not need to upgrade anything else. The bucket can be run by itself if you want. But thats like asking can I buy a big turbo kit, install it, and leave everything else stock. Yes you 100% can, you just wont get full potential out of the car. Putting a LPFP is not going to fix your HPFP fueling problems, it will give the HPFP more head room, but once you reach the limit of the HPFP, you either have to go aux fuel, or wait for one of the HPFP's to come out. This LPFP insures the LPFP bottle neck is out of the way, so you can properly fuel the car.

 

[mbreinin]

Of course, you do not need to upgrade anything else. The bucket can be run by itself if you want. But thats like asking can I buy a big turbo kit, install it, and leave everything else stock. Yes you 100% can, you just wont get full potential out of the car. Putting a LPFP is not going to fix your HPFP fueling problems, it will give the HPFP more head room, but once you reach the limit of the HPFP, you either have to go aux fuel, or wait for one of the HPFP's to come out. This LPFP insures the LPFP bottom neck is out of the way, so you can properly fuel the car.

You believe that the single bucket will give the stock HPFP enough headroom to run pure E85, or a percentage in excess of E50...or will you need an auxiliary fuel setup or an upgraded HPFP? Because, your response makes it sound like that is what you are saying.

 

[VargasTurboTech]

You believe that the single bucket will give the stock HPFP enough headroom to run pure E85, or a percentage in excess of E50...or will you need an auxiliary fuel setup or an upgraded HPFP? Because, your response makes it sound like that is what you are saying.

No my response actually was very clear. I said this gets rid of the LPFP bottle neck side of the equation, and gives the HPFP more headroom. I also said when you reach the limit of the HPFP, you will ned an HPFP upgrade or aux fuel. Think of it as exactly what it is. TWO PUMPS, one feeding the other. Both have their flow limits, if the feed pump reaches its flow limit before the second pump, then the flow of the second pump is diminished. Fixing the feed pump flow limit does not raise the limit of the second pump, it just allows it to work at its full potential. Once you upgrade the feed pump so it does not run out of the flow, the next thing you run into is the flow limit of the SECOND pump. At that point you upgrade that pump, then run into other bottlenecks, injectors, etc, etc. In order to keep making more power, you need fuel. The LPFP is STEP ONE in removing the bottle necks for a proper flowing fuel system.

 

[DontoMelbo]

This was all with OEM fuel injectors correct? If upgraded injectors were used (e.g. DeatschWerks 1700cc) would the Aux fuel setup still be needed? Curious as on your Stage 2 TS thread the mod's listed have the AFK was wondering if the same #'s could be reached with the new FP and upgraded injectors (less $ to spend).

 

[JungleG1337]

Nothing happens. If you strictly run pump, the stock LPFP is prob sufficient for you. This is for people running ethanol say above E60, and pushing 350WHP+. This pump will run anything. If you ran race gas this single pump would be good for over 700WHP

I am in the process of tuning for e85. Let said I am driving to places with out e85. Would this upgrade be a problem when I switch back to 93?

 

[mbreinin]

No my response actually was very clear. I said this gets rid of the LPFP bottle neck side of the equation, and gives the HPFP more headroom. I also said when you reach the limit of the HPFP, you will ned an HPFP upgrade or aux fuel. Think of it as exactly what it is. TWO PUMPS, one feeding the other. Both have their flow limits, if the feed pump reaches its flow limit before the second pump, then the flow of the second pump is diminished. Fixing the feed pump flow limit does not raise the limit of the second pump, it just allows it to work at its full potential. Once you upgrade the feed pump so it does not run out of the flow, the next thing you run into is the flow limit of the SECOND pump. At that point you upgrade that pump, then run into other bottlenecks, injectors, etc, etc. In order to keep making more power, you need fuel. The LPFP is STEP ONE in removing the bottle necks for a proper flowing fuel system.

Works for me. I wonder what will be more cost effective, an upgraded bucket and a HPFP or a bucket and aux injection?

 

[perfweld]

Works for me. I wonder what will be more cost effective, an upgraded bucket and a HPFP or a bucket and aux injection?

None of this is cost effective. I have AUX fuel now, and am planning on buying a HPFP as well when they become available. I just ordered this LPFP this evening as ive been on borrowed time not having it. I like that it just drops right in, anything that appears stock is my cup of tea. I think that the LPFP is one of the most important ingredients to getting the fuel system to work properly. Its true job is to get enough fuel from the center of the car to the HPFP in the front of the car, and if using AUX fuel, its gotta feed both, so its got a lot of volume to move, it needs to be upgraded if your using E85, or heck even if your on E30 and have the wick turned way up I bet.

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