PMAS Intake Systems from UPR Products. TUNE AND NO TUNE INTAKES

[dev1360]

So explain why on a cold day say 0c a car makes more horsepower on a dyno say compared to a 30c day? You can even easily tell on the butt dyno how much faster a car feels when intake temps are lower due to colder air.

Cold air is denser and gives more power.
Colder air allows the ECM to advance more ignition for more power.

Maybe I miss read your post but it's scientific fact that engines make more power when intake air is colder. You seem to be contradicting this?

The engine is able to make more power. It will only advance timing as much as is allowed based on intake temps. At 108* you car pulls, or stops adding timing. By 125* you're missing about 2.5* of timing peaking at 5* at 150* IAT. 5* is a lot, regardless of intake.

Mustang guys should be lucky. GM IAT tables are very aggressive. My Vette started pulling at 77* and pulled a full 9* of timing by 130*!

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[PMAS]

So explain why on a cold day say 0c a car makes more horsepower on a dyno say compared to a 30c day? You can even easily tell on the butt dyno how much faster a car feels when intake temps are lower due to colder air.

Cold air is denser and gives more power.
Colder air allows the ECM to advance more ignition for more power.

Maybe I miss read your post but it's scientific fact that engines make more power when intake air is colder. You seem to be contradicting this?

It does make more power, but not as much as more flow. You have to restrict the airbox to pull cooler air. The restriction takes away more power than the cooler air adds. You aren't wrong but there are more variables at play. The air density change from the difference in temp isn't anywhere close to the air density change from the difference in direct pressure from reduced restriction. Even with the reduced timing from heat (remember this is mostly idling in traffic, moving at slow speeds etc anyway) the increase in flow makes more power. On top of that once the car is moving temps come way down so it's only about flow at that point. I personally would be glad I didn't sacrifice any flow when it mattered since the IAT's would be close at that point.

I would never trade flow for lower IAT's that only get really bad when the car is stopped or moving at slow speeds. I've said before, you don't race in traffic. Even if you end up next to somebody at a light with a clear road ahead, odds are you weren't sitting in traffic before you got to the light. Most of the time it's at the track, from a roll on the freeway or late on a saturday night in Mexico when the night air is cooler and you've been parked waiting for your turn anyway.

You can't have both but you can pick which one is more important and which one will actually be at play when you actually need the power to be there.

 

[Gibbo205]

It does make more power, but not as much as more flow. You have to restrict the airbox to pull cooler air. The restriction takes away more power than the cooler air adds. You aren't wrong but there are more variables at play. The air density change from the difference in temp isn't anywhere close to the air density change from the difference in direct pressure from reduced restriction. Even with the reduced timing from heat (remember this is mostly idling in traffic, moving at slow speeds etc anyway) the increase in flow makes more power. On top of that once the car is moving temps come way down so it's only about flow at that point. I personally would be glad I didn't sacrifice any flow when it mattered since the IAT's would be close at that point.

I would never trade flow for lower IAT's that only get really bad when the car is stopped or moving at slow speeds. I've said before, you don't race in traffic. Even if you end up next to somebody at a light with a clear road ahead, odds are you weren't sitting in traffic before you got to the light. Most of the time it's at the track, from a roll on the freeway or late on a saturday night in Mexico when the night air is cooler and you've been parked waiting for your turn anyway.

You can't have both but you can pick which one is more important and which one will actually be at play when you actually need the power to be there.

I see your points on flow but what if you have a direct feed to the air box and grill opened up causing RAM air effect?

Both Porsche and BMW proved ram air effect can add upto around 10BHP at 70mph.

 

[4V Mayhem]

I see your points on flow but what if you have a direct feed to the air box and grill opened up causing RAM air effect?

Both Porsche and BMW proved ram air effect can add upto around 10BHP at 70mph.

Even the Viper has that big ole wide mouth intake right in front drawing air thru the hood with a ram air style intake. I believe even the current Z06 and the older ZR1 has that design as well. And lots of newer cars made by Nissan, Infinity, etc employ a similar intake design drawing air straight thru the front grill into the TB. The G35 sedan and 370Z uses this approach. Why the Mustang and Camaro doesn't use it is beyond me.

 

[Gibbo205]

Even the Viper has that big ole wide mouth intake right in front drawing air thru the hood with a ram air style intake. I believe even the current Z06 and the older ZR1 has that design as well. And lots of newer cars made by Nissan, Infinity, etc employ a similar intake design drawing air straight thru the front grill into the TB. The G35 sedan and 370Z uses this approach. Why the Mustang and Camaro doesn't use it is beyond me.

My Mustang does so I just wondered if PMAS still felt having the air box open and not sealed was still better idea?

 

[PMAS]

My Mustang does so I just wondered if PMAS still felt having the air box open and not sealed was still better idea?

Absolutely! I would enclose more of the airbox if there enough and large enough holes behind the grill and in the fenderwell. Most guys don't want to cut holes in their cars though

 

[NvrFinished]

It wasn't until a few years ago when ford added a temp gauge on the dash that all of a sudden, intake temps are the most important part to making power with a mustang. That just isn't the case and it never has been.

Thanks for clearing that up [MENTION=15451]PMAS[/MENTION]. I've never come across so much discussion about intake temps before and never thought is was as big an issue as people all of a sudden seem to think. The worry of losing a few horsepower in stop-and-go traffic during summer heat has always had me baffled.

Most people here do not understand the myriad of information that is fed into the ECU in order to produce the maximum horsepower with the components provided. Intake temp is only a small percentage of that info, yet people seem to be treating it as the "holy grail" of variables.

 

[PMAS]

My Mustang does so I just wondered if PMAS still felt having the air box open and not sealed was still better idea?

If you have really good feed behind the grill I would cut out more of the front of our heatshield. That will bring temps down more.

 

[Gman]

Thanks for clearing that up [MENTION=15451]PMAS[/MENTION]. I've never come across so much discussion about intake temps before and never thought is was as big an issue as people all of a sudden seem to think. The worry of losing a few horsepower in stop-and-go traffic during summer heat has always had me baffled.

Most people here do not understand the myriad of information that is fed into the ECU in order to produce the maximum horsepower with the components provided. Intake temp is only a small percentage of that info, yet people seem to be treating it as the "holy grail" of variables.

And no one complained out the other intakes out there like JLT and ITA's. Some people have really ruined this thread.

 

[Terminator2]

But the ECM also adds when temperatures are lower and octane is better. So it's not just about timing being pulled it might not be adding as much as it could due to higher temperatures

Yes of course.

 

[mustang_guy]

My Mustang does so I just wondered if PMAS still felt having the air box open and not sealed was still better idea?

Youre speaking about the velossa tech big mouth i presume

 

[Terminator2]

So explain why on a cold day say 0c a car makes more horsepower on a dyno say compared to a 30c day? You can even easily tell on the butt dyno how much faster a car feels when intake temps are lower due to colder air.

Cold air is denser and gives more power.
Colder air allows the ECM to advance more ignition for more power.

Maybe I miss read your post but it's scientific fact that engines make more power when intake air is colder. You seem to be contradicting this?

This is 100% true.

 

[Terminator2]

Absolutely! I would enclose more of the airbox if there enough and large enough holes behind the grill and in the fenderwell. Most guys don't want to cut holes in their cars though

That hole is pretty big as long as you cut the honeycomb on the grille out.

 

[PMAS]

That hole is pretty big as long as you cut the honeycomb on the grille out.

Don't forget, the top of the box isn't completely open. it seals somewhat against the hood.

 

[Terminator2]

Don't forget, the top of the box isn't completely open. it seals somewhat against the hood.

Unrelated but do you have the MAF data (MAF airflow vs voltage and MAF airflow vs Period) for us HP Tuners users for your tune required intake?

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