Race Fuel? 260 GT Plus

[bmoore1488]

Just curious if anybody has any experience with the Sunoco 260 GT Plus race fuel. I was torn between running this and MS109 but after looking at the stats of both fuels they are very comparable and the Sunoco 260 GT plus is almost $200 cheaper a barrel. The MS109 comes out to 105 octane and the 260 Gt Plus comes out to 104 octane and both are unleaded fuel. Just wondering why such a price difference in the fuels? When I was talking to the guy I'm ordering my fuel from here he really couldn't tell me why there was such a price difference so I looked up both fuels and the comparison seems so miniscule that I see no reason not to go with the 260 over the MS109. Just wondering if Im missing something here?

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[evo8904]

I have been looking at the same fuels. I'm leaning towards 260 GT plus.

 

[bmoore1488]

I bought a barrel of the 260 GT Plus, I just hope id didn't make a mistake by not going with the MS109

 

[dunnyrc51]

I have both MS109 and 260 GT+. The VP motor octane is higher at 101 vs. the Sunoco at 98. Both are oxygenated but the motor octane is quite a bit lower on the Sunoco. I think motor octane is the number that needs to be higher to make more power via timing. Maybe Dustin @whipple can jump on here and explain a little better.

 

[whatsup62]

I ran the GT 260 on my NA setup, no problems at all. Going to be switching to the plus now that the PC is going on.

 

[bklynpanman]

I ran the 260 on my gt500 with 22degrees of timing. 700hp. No sign of detonation


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[bmoore1488]

So on the 260 Gt Plus the motor octane is 98 the research octane is 110 bring the octane rating to 104. On the MS109 the motor octane is 101 the research octane is 109 bringing the rating to 105. So what I'm really asking i guess is, is the 3 points on the motor octane rating really worth $200 extra per barrel and is it really going to make a huge difference in hp?

 

[dunnyrc51]

So on the 260 Gt Plus the motor octane is 98 the research octane is 110 bring the octane rating to 104. On the MS109 the motor octane is 101 the research octane is 109 bringing the rating to 105. So what I'm really asking i guess is, is the 3 points on the motor octane rating really worth $200 extra per barrel and is it really going to make a huge difference in hp?

Thats the question I will let Dustin @Whipple answer. He will know more about what these engines like with his supercharger.

 

[lxh89]

I posted this in another thread but will repost here. You can determine the motor octane you require simply by considering the following:

• 93 octane is usually 89 motor octane (conservative)
• Base whipple tune is 17 degrees of timing for 93 octane with a 3.75" pulley
• Every .125 reduction in pulley size is 1 psi of boost
• Every 1 psi increase in boost requires 1 more motor octane point or 1 degree less of timing (all things equal)

That said, if you have 260 GT plus and it has a 98 motor octane, with the base whipple tune you can add up to 9 psi of boost and stay within antiknock margin.

Since that fuel is oxygenated, you also need to consider it will lean out the mixture relative to 93 octane. From what I can find online, it appears stoich for the fuel is 13.7:1. Most gas stations sell fuels with a stoich of 14.64:1. Therefore, the mixture will lean out about 7%.

If target A/F on whipple tune is 11.3:1, then running 260 GT plus will make it 12.07:1.

This is running things on a tighter margin but within reason for a race only application. Here's where you want to give yourself a buffer on the octane so a little headroom of 3-4 points (or limiting boost to 5-6 lbs over baseline).

Regards,
Tony

 

[evo8904]

I posted this in another thread but will repost here. You can determine the motor octane you require simply by considering the following:

• 93 octane is usually 89 motor octane (conservative)
• Base whipple tune is 17 degrees of timing for 93 octane with a 3.75" pulley
• Every .125 reduction in pulley size is 1 psi of boost
• Every 1 psi increase in boost requires 1 more motor octane point or 1 degree less of timing (all things equal)

That said, if you have 260 GT plus and it has a 98 motor octane, with the base whipple tune you can add up to 9 psi of boost and stay within antiknock margin.

Since that fuel is oxygenated, you also need to consider it will lean out the mixture relative to 93 octane. From what I can find online, it appears stoich for the fuel is 13.7:1. Most gas stations sell fuels with a stoich of 14.64:1. Therefore, the mixture will lean out about 7%.

If target A/F on whipple tune is 11.3:1, then running 260 GT plus will make it 12.07:1.

This is running things on a tighter margin but within reason for a race only application. Here's where you want to give yourself a buffer on the octane so a little headroom of 3-4 points (or limiting boost to 5-6 lbs over baseline).

Regards,
Tony

Good post! But, Whipple's calibration bumps the timing up more than 17 degrees on 93oct with the 3.75 pulley. I won't disclose my sources but their calibration is spot on and will adjust the timing depending on the fuel. It's pretty cool. Lund typically maxes timing at 17 degrees on 93oct. But, I talked to my tuner tonight and I'm going to pick up some Sunoco gt260 plus and a 3.5 pulley. Ken told me that will be good for 800+ at the wheels.

 

[Burnin4]

How do you guys plan on purchasing this fuel? Direct or from a local dealer? Thanks!

 

[evo8904]

How do you guys plan on purchasing this fuel? Direct or from a local dealer? Thanks!

I found a local dealer bro. I believe that gt 260 plus is around $62 for 5 gallons. I wanted to have it shipped but the extra shipping cost sucked.

 

[stealthfrc]

i did a search for this recently. im pretty sure we have it available at the pump around here.. atleast according to some online searches, i still need to swing by the station and see it for my own eyes tho

 

[bmoore1488]

I posted this in another thread but will repost here. You can determine the motor octane you require simply by considering the following:

• 93 octane is usually 89 motor octane (conservative)
• Base whipple tune is 17 degrees of timing for 93 octane with a 3.75" pulley
• Every .125 reduction in pulley size is 1 psi of boost
• Every 1 psi increase in boost requires 1 more motor octane point or 1 degree less of timing (all things equal)

That said, if you have 260 GT plus and it has a 98 motor octane, with the base whipple tune you can add up to 9 psi of boost and stay within antiknock margin.

Since that fuel is oxygenated, you also need to consider it will lean out the mixture relative to 93 octane. From what I can find online, it appears stoich for the fuel is 13.7:1. Most gas stations sell fuels with a stoich of 14.64:1. Therefore, the mixture will lean out about 7%.

If target A/F on whipple tune is 11.3:1, then running 260 GT plus will make it 12.07:1.

This is running things on a tighter margin but within reason for a race only application. Here's where you want to give yourself a buffer on the octane so a little headroom of 3-4 points (or limiting boost to 5-6 lbs over baseline).

Regards,
Tony

Thanks so much for that, alot of good information here.

As for where I got the fuel
I also bought from a local dealer, It was $485 for a 54gal drum, he also sells the MS109 but it was $682 for a 54 gal drum. So the 260 GT+ is round about $9 a gallon vs. $13 a gallon for the MS109.

 

[evo8904]

i did a search for this recently. im pretty sure we have it available at the pump around here.. atleast according to some online searches, i still need to swing by the station and see it for my own eyes tho

I only have the gt 260 at the pump near me:frusty: I have the get the drums for the plus.

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