5.0 Coyote vs LS3/LT1 GM engines - how do they compare?

[1320']

All ford has to do is Bore and stroke the 5.0. Get it up to 6.2L and lets see what the LT1 fan boys have to say about the hp difference. Im just sad there isn't that much to gain from the coyote. Its a much bigger engine dimensionally than the LT5 in my 94 ZR-1 and the LT5s can get to 7.4L + pushing 800+ hp NA.

The Coyote is limited to about 5.3L max block displacement due to bore center limitations and the tooling at the Romeo engine plant. Increasing the stroke creates unfavorable rod angle and very high piston speeds.

The only way to get more than 5.3L block/bore displacement is by a whole new set of foundry and manufacturing tooling. That alone would cost more than the Coyote+S550 program combined.

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[Higgs Boson]

I would like to see the Coyote with a 4.10 bore and a 2.86 stroke so it can rev to 9100 RPMs with the same piston speed and still be a 302.

 

[Tm@c1965]

I need a 426 Stroker kit bad

All I need is $4K. Anyone have $4K lying around?

http://www.shophemi.com/p-264-k-1-426-hemi-stroker-kit.aspx But then I'd need heads and a Cam....some balancing and tuning. Next thing you know I'm up to $10K. Speed cost $$$

 

[1320']

Well the 392 heads already flow well enough for a base 426. A 426 with Apache heads and a good, mild custom ground VVT cam would make an easy 575 HP+ and still be totally streetable, without a blower, etc

Plus you could legitimately put "426 Hemi" on the hood.

 

[200MPHCOBRA]

The Coyote is limited to about 5.3L max block displacement due to bore center limitations and the tooling at the Romeo engine plant. Increasing the stroke creates unfavorable rod angle and very high piston speeds.

The only way to get more than 5.3L block/bore displacement is by a whole new set of foundry and manufacturing tooling. That alone would cost more than the Coyote+S550 program combined.

Or just use the V-10 line to make a 6.3 coyote.
Or better yet, use the 6.2 from the raptor and do a 4V head. Guys been welding together stuff for awhile, someone will do it eventually.

 

[9secondko]

a little research will show that overhead cams existed 100 years ago.

http://hotrodenginetech.com/worlds-first-dohc-4-valve-per-cylinder-racing-engine/

The DOHC motors have advantages and disadvantages. The only thing high tech about modern push rods or DOHC is the modern innovations to them. The internal combustion engine is old tech.

Push rod engines allow more cubic inches per size of the motor. The 5.0 Coyote probably takes up more space than my 392. It has more moving parts and chains. But.... it gets more power per cubic inch because of more valves and higher revs.

Neither one is better in every case. I believe V8's will be rare after 2019 (CAFE Regs). The Twin Turbo V6 is the future.

Twin turbo v6 will likely be more common than the NA v8.

TT V8 will likely be the domestic ultra performance motor of choice c

 

[Grabber]

Ok,
"So where is this fact? On an Internet forum where a bunch of fanboys got together and decided it was fact..? That's not a fact."

No, not a bunch of fanboys. Its readily apparent in their reviews and has been for years. I am not the only one who notices it either. When they review or compare a Ford product truck, car whatever they almost seem surprised if it wins the comparison, or does well on the review.
If the Ford wins a comparison its "it won by a slight margin" and if the GM wins its "a decisive victory" or "a trouncing" its all in the attitude and the language. Go back to the days of Motor Trend television when Jim Scouten hosted it, he was one of the biggest GM pushers. That is the fact, nobody "made it up" its out there as much as Jeremy Clarkson hates musclecars LOL!

"In every review out there the Mustang was beat by the Camaro as far as basic acceleration and quarter mile times go"

Yes I stated that too.

"Also, there's way more to how a car accelerates besides max hp and weight. Just saying"

Yes you are correct, there is gearing, torque curves, aero, etc but total power and torque are the biggest factor in acceleration followed by weight and gearing.

"This shouldn't really matter anyway because very few people on here are going to be running hero times in either car."

No not everyone, but I'm sure the majority do otherwise why buy a performance car?

Cheers!:ford:

 

[1320']

GM fan's do tend to very carefully craft their words..

GT350 beats Z/28 by roughly a second: "Oh that's barely beating it, that's within a drivers margin of error"

1LE beats GTPP by roughly 1 second: "Absolute domination, utter ass kicking"

 

[Higgs Boson]

Twin turbo v6 will likely be more common than the NA v8.

TT V8 will likely be the domestic ultra performance motor of choice c

many brands have already gone that way.

Mercedes:

single turbo 4 cyl 2.0L (normal engine)
twin turbo 6 cyl 3.0L (Sport (fake AMG))
twin turbo 8 cyl 4.0L (AMG)

the NA 3.5 V6 is being phased out
the twin turbo 4.6 and 5.5 are still used in SUVs and aging AMGs

The only NA engine left after that is the AMG 5.5L in the SLK, but with the move to SLC, I would expect that to disappear as well.

 

[Childs Play]

GM fan's do tend to very carefully craft their words..

GT350 beats Z/28 by roughly a second: "Oh that's barely beating it, that's within a drivers margin of error"

1LE beats GTPP by roughly 1 second: "Absolute domination, utter ass kicking"

To be fair this could be a legitimate reason depending on the length of track. But you're right. It's probably more of an excuse.

And while I agree with you, it works both ways. The 5th gen Mustang creamed the 5th gen Camaro in the quarter mile. The Camaro side? "Oh but it's a driver's race" when it really wasn't. The Mustang was faster.

Now it's the other way around and you hear the same reasoning for the other side.

In a couple of years it will switch again and once again the excuse will flip.

It could be a driver's race, but it would have to be a crappy driver vs. a competent one. Lol.

I get that quarter miles and road racing is significantly different. Just the only thing I could think of. We all like tipping the scales in our favor.

 

[1320']

Anyone who is honest will admit that a 2016 SS A8 Vs a 2016 GT A6, even with the 3.55's, isn't a drivers race.

 

[Childs Play]

Anyone who is honest will admit that a 2016 SS A8 Vs a 2016 GT A6, even with the 3.55's, isn't a drivers race.

Yup. And with a few tweaks and this mysterious 10 speed transmission that could show up... It will probably flip flop.

 

[Khell86]

I dont believe anyone on this site legitimately thinks its a drivers race between the two. The issue is how big the margin is. For some reason on C6, the S550's worst times are always quoted. You're constantly seeing the 13.0 or greater 1/4 mile times quoted as its potential when it should probably be 12.5-12.7. 3-4 MPH difference does not equal a second in the 1/4.

 

[1320']

I dont believe anyone on this site legitimately thinks its a drivers race between the two. The issue is how big the margin is. For some reason on C6, the S550's worst times are always quoted. You're constantly seeing the 13.0 or greater 1/4 mile times quoted as its potential when it should probably be 12.5-12.7. 3-4 MPH difference does not equal a second in the 1/4.

You've got a few people like SUMMIT WHITE SS (Now SS1LE or something like that) who had a 5.0 but never got the times others have, so the butthurt takes over and refuses to accept anything better than 12.9 as stock.

You've got Big_Hammer or whatever, he thinks the 2016 V6 is a threat to the 5.0, so he's an idiot.

IOMike who is a delightful combination of stupid and arrogant.

ChefBorOzzy who is a troll everywhere and says he got banned from here for "calling BS on stuff" when it was really more, but it's okay, he's a liar.

Camaro6 is a forum filled with circle jerking, rabid, blind fanboys who will not tolerate any form of criticism of the Camaro. How's that initial quality going for you, Bowtie Bimbos?

 

[Childs Play]

You've got a few people like SUMMIT WHITE SS (Now SS1LE or something like that) who had a 5.0 but never got the times others have, so the butthurt takes over and refuses to accept anything better than 12.9 as stock.

You've got Big_Hammer or whatever, he thinks the 2016 V6 is a threat to the 5.0, so he's an idiot.

IOMike who is a delightful combination of stupid and arrogant.

ChefBorOzzy who is a troll everywhere and says he got banned from here for "calling BS on stuff" when it was really more, but it's okay, he's a liar.

Camaro6 is a forum filled with circle jerking, rabid, blind fanboys who will not tolerate any form of criticism of the Camaro. How's that initial quality going for you, Bowtie Bimbos?

Hey! I'm a Camaro5/6 guy (Also a part of other forums like Insight Central which is an interesting place and a couple 240sx/Nissan forums.) and I take criticism and give it to the new Camaro. I'm a bit of a troll sometimes as well but it's usually because someone said something absolutely ridiculous and I want to see how long I can keep them going on it. I've cut back recently though... Mainly due to the looming ban-hammer.

However it's also enjoyable to discuss the differences of two great cars. I have my preferences but that doesn't mean I don't like the Mustang.

Also, there's been a few quality issues with the Mustang. Can't end a post without adding that. Just sayin.

There's crazy fanboys on both sides that will see nothing wrong no matter what happens or focus on a point no matter what they're told.

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