February 2016 Mustang Sales

[thePill]

"By far the worst performance vehicle out of the pack."


Sorry, but in what respect?

Straight line speed?
Track capabilities?
Tech Options?
MPG?

You can say it's ugly because some people are going to have that opinion. And that's totally cool.

Straight line speed dominance is all in the auto. Besides, I wouldn't use a 6th Gen for straight line performance while the S197 exist.

I wasn't impressed with the braking at all. It feels very regular to me and the mags have it performing all over. There isn't much on the SS below the springs that I am comfortable with. We made changes to the GT's too, that is true. The SS is just undesirable in many areas. Many that were already discussed here and some things new.

The steering feels more responsive than the 5th Gen and it feels more agile. Although, it's just not the typical sports car/coupe feel.

Honestly, it doesn't perform better than the ATS-V and it wasn't real great to begin with. I'm sure many of the drivers didn't want to damage the vehicle but, we got to see them in motion last year.

It's very hard for me to take such a vehicle seriously... on the track that is. The 5th Gen was better suited to handle a weekend than a 2016 SS is. However, if you are a drag racing fan, the Auto '16 is the best Camaro for the job (2012 ZL1 too).

On looks alone, I wouldn't buy it. Nor is it a good choice for a small family.

The auto '16 isn't really fast enough in the 1/4 for me to drop what I'm doing either. I probably wouldn't buy it.

If I were returning to track this year, I wouldn't buy the 6th Gen Camaro based on its geometry and starting equipment/price.

Overall, the performance is only marginally better for the price. It needs to do better against a fully loaded Premium for me to take it serious. That won't cut it in the SCCA. According to Chevy's SCCA expert, 40lbs is a 10th. That puts that Premium on the heels of a claimed 3670lbs SS. Not exactly mind-blowing...

Lastly, the MSRP alone is a huge discouragement. The styling is another big let down. Probably one of the worse looking Camaro's out of the 42 years they were made.

Anyway, I wouldn't put all my faith into initial magazine test. Most test the auto SS to get that 12.4 so it looks good on paper. The braking, handling and steering is no better and in some cases worse than the GT and GTPP.

Why would I pay extra $ for something that looks like that and performs nearly the same as the other cars?

I'm not alone, people don't see the value in a new Camaro. It's a combination of the MSRP, performance and styling that turns people off...



God what an awful situation they are in... selling maybe 25% less than even thePill expected.

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[thePill]

Yeah it does suck for them. But for me, I don't want the extra weight for convertible bracing in my coupe. Also the built in tonneau cover is very attractive in the Camaro Vert.

If you are just doing 1/4 runs, there is no reason to take on the extra support. Although, it wouldn't surprise me to hear the '16's need additional sub-frame connectors to stiffen the vehicle. Even in the 1/4.

The Alpha Platform didn't stiffen as much as the S550 did. Not only that, the S197 was a bit stiffer than the 5th Gen to begin with. The torsional rigidity of the Mustang was getting very close to that of Porsche and equal to the M's.

The only glimmer of hope this Generation for the Camaro is that 1/4 with an auto. Everywhere else it's at a disadvantage.

The Mustang is selling too well to make improvements... the SS needs an upgrade right now...

 

[ZaneWayne]

If you are just doing 1/4 runs, there is no reason to take on the extra support. Although, it wouldn't surprise me to hear the '16's need additional sub-frame connectors to stiffen the vehicle. Even in the 1/4.

The Alpha Platform didn't stiffen as much as the S550 did. Not only that, the S197 was a bit stiffer than the 5th Gen to begin with. The torsional rigidity of the Mustang was getting very close to that of Porsche and equal to the M's.

The only glimmer of hope this Generation for the Camaro is that 1/4 with an auto. Everywhere else it's at a disadvantage.

The Mustang is selling too well to make improvements... the SS needs an upgrade right now...

Ok......

 

[ZaneWayne]

The braking, handling and steering is no better and in some cases worse than the GT and GTPP.

Where are you finding this information at? Every review I have read, or just an open minded person who has driven both cars has said that the Camaro is a much better handling car for sporty driving. Now the Mustang is a little more comfortable, but with the MRC set in tour, I think it is very close, with the advantage to the Mustang. But I am not finding anything that says the Mustang brakes, handles, or steers better lol.

 

[thePill]

It wasn't too bad of an idea to keep the bracing of the convertible out of the coupe, sucks for the convertible guys though. Isn't the 6th gen SS convertible now 7500 instead of 5000 more?

The convertible starts at $45,1x. I'm not sure but, I think convertible sales typically make up about 5-10% of the overall sales. I doubt many in that market will care or, they are willing to go down to a V6.

As far as I can see, the convertible has an excessive and elaborate sub-frame system designed. It was probably lighter and cheaper to go that route.

thePill thinks Chevy's target MSRP of $36,500-$38,000 ultimately prevented them from including it. The Alpha was never designed to be a convertible, STILL hasn't been designed to be a convertible if you think about it. It's a chop top with custom panels.


I'm not sure if convertibles are being delivered or not...


This was a very poor opening and GM has no money to advertise. The media is keeping GM products on Facebook. Once the media gets bored, I'm not sure what's in store for the Camaro...

 

[thePill]

Where are you finding this information at? Every review I have read, or just an open minded person who has driven both cars has said that the Camaro is a much better handling car for sporty driving. Now the Mustang is a little more comfortable, but with the MRC set in tour, I think it is very close, with the advantage to the Mustang. But I am not finding anything that says the Mustang brakes, handles, or steers better lol.

None of the experiences Motor Trend had were present in any of our drives. Certainly not to the extent at which they claim the SS to be. It feels far more agile than the 5th... that's the biggest improvement I noticed. None of it is hard core driving but still, it feels very Camaro-ish.

The numbers presented by the magazines were only marginally better than a fully loaded Premium GT. In some areas the GT did better than the SS as well. The SS was their best shot.

We have serious doubts the SS in any form can keep up with an ATS-V. We won't get to see real hot laps for another few weeks. From what we seen already, it's not very far from the 5th Gen. It feels like it's a lot faster but I think that is the agile steering making it appear to be a faster lap.

There were far too many compromises this generation... none of that is discussed in the hilarious "Car of the Year" segment. The Camaro is NOT a good car and it appears they really never intended for it to be that unique. It is what it is... a parts bin car.

You can literally feel the quality associated with shared equipment. It feels very 90's GM and tacky in many areas. We have yet to truly discover the numbskull moves that had to be made. We know that convertible support was removed... the CoG/Engine height may have increased dramatically, the Track width is inadequate...


The Mustang is just better and better in many areas. There are few areas on the Camaro in which I believe it to be better than the Mustang. The 1/4 mile in the auto, the initial torque...


that's about it... and those areas are easily altered...

 

[DAGO GT]

Pill....I'm a huge Mustang fan, why is the Camaro half a second faster in the 1/4 mile in the magazine test, manual transmission to manual transmission?

 

[superman07]

The two main sectors of the population that care about the slight performance differences with these cars likely are either gear heads that frankly can get something better, or teenagers that cant afford one. Rank and file buyers don't read stupid car rags, they go by style and the visceral feeling they get with the car, the impulse must be enough to overcome the cost and psychological barriers. The new Camaro is just too much like the old, visibility is still a major problem for many. I cross shopped but could not get into the SS. As an aside I have also found few women that don't dislike the new SS for some reason compared to the GT, Weird. My wife found out I was going to Tennessee to buy a car and was shocked, she saw and heard the gt350 and the attitude evaporated.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I'm a huge Mustang fan, why is the Camaro half a second faster in the 1/4 mile in the magazine test, manual transmission to manual transmission?

More power, less weight, trying to outrun it's looks?

 

[pietran30]

Oh look. The Pill ran and hid for for 5 months and is back with more bullshit...

 

[Spectre]

I might be new to this site, but not to car forums in general. You folks need to ban the poison pill simply because he is a such a terrible reflection on this site as a whole. Disgraceful, in fact.

 

[Childs Play]

None of the experiences Motor Trend had were present in any of our drives. Certainly not to the extent at which they claim the SS to be. It feels far more agile than the 5th... that's the biggest improvement I noticed. None of it is hard core driving but still, it feels very Camaro-ish.

The numbers presented by the magazines were only marginally better than a fully loaded Premium GT. In some areas the GT did better than the SS as well. The SS was their best shot.

We have serious doubts the SS in any form can keep up with an ATS-V. We won't get to see real hot laps for another few weeks. From what we seen already, it's not very far from the 5th Gen. It feels like it's a lot faster but I think that is the agile steering making it appear to be a faster lap.

There were far too many compromises this generation... none of that is discussed in the hilarious "Car of the Year" segment. The Camaro is NOT a good car and it appears they really never intended for it to be that unique. It is what it is... a parts bin car.

You can literally feel the quality associated with shared equipment. It feels very 90's GM and tacky in many areas. We have yet to truly discover the numbskull moves that had to be made. We know that convertible support was removed... the CoG/Engine height may have increased dramatically, the Track width is inadequate...


The Mustang is just better and better in many areas. There are few areas on the Camaro in which I believe it to be better than the Mustang. The 1/4 mile in the auto, the initial torque...


that's about it... and those areas are easily altered...

The Camaro won't weight what Chevy claims..................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[1320']

Mods? I think this thread has run its course.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Indeed! I even had to check the thread title to remember what was supposed to be discussed :doh:

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