HPDE oil weight

[Optimum Performance]

I'd love to see Fords engineers opinion. seems to me the engine is designed for a specific viscosity, due to heat and clearances. I have stayed with Amzoil 5-20 and don't see any reason to change until a Ford engineer says different.
Anybody pay attention to the actual oil pressure with a heavier viscosity?

[MENTION=23031]mnmike59[/MENTION] , at normal operating temps because it didn't get very warm at Daytona (something about 150MPH air moving through the radiator) but about 20-25psi hot idle and a hair under 80psi @4000RPM. This is with BG 5W-30.

Sponsored

 

[09jsw]

Has anybody done testing on the royal purple 20-820? How does it compare to the fr filter?

 

[sonicc]

I see few posts mentioning 5w40, I wonder how Rotella T6 5w40 would hold up?

 

[daltron]

I see few posts mentioning 5w40, I wonder how Rotella T6 5w40 would hold up?

I could be wrong, but [MENTION=9290]HBMike[/MENTION] isn't that what you run?

 

[Optimum Performance]

I see few posts mentioning 5w40, I wonder how Rotella T6 5w40 would hold up?

I could be wrong, but [MENTION=9290]HBMike[/MENTION] isn't that what you run?

Diesel oils actually are pretty good to run due to the additive package. They are blended to handle high load for a long change interval.

 

[BmacIL]

Diesel oils actually are pretty good to run due to the additive package. They are blended to handle high load for a long change interval.

Yep, just need to ensure it's a "mixed fleet" designated oil like Rotella, meaning it can be used for both diesel and gasoline engines.

 

[stoli]

Everything you never wanted to know about oil: https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

Thermal breakdown for diesel oils is much earlier than traditional gasoline oils. There's a section in there specific to diesel oils in gasoline, high performance motors that concludes:

CONCLUSION
The bottom line is that the end user does NOT know more about motor oil than the Oil Companies’ Chemical Engineers and Chemists. So, the BEST choice is to use only quality gas engine oil in High Performance gas engines. These oils offer MUCH HIGHER wear protection capability and can withstand somewhat higher temperatures before the onset of Thermal Breakdown. Leave the less capable Diesel oils for use only in Diesel engines, where they are meant to be used.

 

[Optimum Performance]

Love ya John but I've read this one before. The oils job isn't wear protection, it's job is to prevent metal to metal contact via a hydrodynamic wedge and take away the heat generated from that process of compression. That's it. End of the day just run a quality oil and don't overheat it. Some have better additive packages for what track cars see but KMART oil will do that if kept in its operating range.

 

[Optimum Performance]

This engine makes 6000 HP 24-7 on conventional straight 40 weight oil. The main bearings are 6"+ Rods are slightly smaller. 95PSI of boost 1500 RPM. The oil is subjected to 90+C temperatures and this oil runs for several thousand hours before being changed. The surface area being covered even at a low 1500 rpm is substantial. My point is I don't overthink engine oil in a car being driven to a track day. We pull these apart at 30K hours and the bearings look new.

Point of reference, run a Mustang engine at max horsepower for roughly 3.5 years non stop. That's 30K hours.

 

[mustang_guy]

Ive seen more gas engine failures with spun rod bearings with Rotella than any other oil. Couldnt pay me to use it in a gas engine. In a diesel, hell yeah id use it.

 

[Optimum Performance]

Ive seen more gas engine failures with spun rod bearings with Rotella than any other oil. Couldnt pay me to use it in a gas engine. In a diesel, hell yeah id use it.

How many exactly? I have one engine(only about 2700HP) I built because I f-d up during assembly. I know exactly what caused the failure and oil had zero to do with the failure even though that was where most people pointed too. My multiple hundred thousand dollar engine failure was a rod bearing that slid out of position and changed the clearance after running for 30 minutes so it looked like an oil starvation issue. So in your time in one? (Ford dealership) where you saw what appears to be hundreds of engine failures of GT's, Bosses, and GT500's based on your very 'fact' based information that oil is the root cause of failure. In 30+ years of exposure to many different makes of engines from low speed to high speed never have I ever physically, personally seen or touched a reciprocating internal combustion engine that failed due to the oil used. I will add I have had rods through blocks, piston pins ripped out of pistons, bearings vaporized due to electric current, broken cranks, split blocks (a dist. rotor that started to shift during a quarter mile run- aging myself)and of course good old time oil starvation. None of these were due to oil type or product. So other than pointing to links on other forums show me these documented failures. Lots of things exist on the Internet, not much is based in reality.

 

[mustang_guy]

How many exactly? I have one engine(only about 2700HP) I built because I f-d up during assembly. I know exactly what caused the failure and oil had zero to do with the failure even though that was where most people pointed too. My multiple hundred thousand dollar engine failure was a rod bearing that slid out of position and changed the clearance after running for 30 minutes so it looked like an oil starvation issue. So in your time in one? (Ford dealership) where you saw what appears to be hundreds of engine failures of GT's, Bosses, and GT500's based on your very 'fact' based information that oil is the root cause of failure. In 30+ years of exposure to many different makes of engines from low speed to high speed never have I ever physically, personally seen or touched a reciprocating internal combustion engine that failed due to the oil used. I will add I have had rods through blocks, piston pins ripped out of pistons, bearings vaporized due to electric current, broken cranks, split blocks (a dist. rotor that started to shift during a quarter mile run- aging myself)and of course good old time oil starvation. None of these were due to oil type or product. So other than pointing to links on other forums show me these documented failures. Lots of things exist on the Internet, not much is based in reality.

:lol: did you expect me to have files/service records to share with you from my time ford? Get real. And the whole Rotella deal, i saw tons of subarus with spun bearings using it. Very little with a spun bearing using gas oil. Do you expect files/service records on that too? You arent the only one with over 3 decades of experience. Also way to blow out of proportion what multiple ford warranty reps specifically told me that MC 5w20 was an issue in coyotes. You dont have to like it but you need to stop trying to correct me as if its untrue. I also never mentioned failure of a gt500 or roadrunner due to oil.

Do i need to share files on the shitbox bmws i wrench on next? Oh, how about the m4 that just got a brand engine

 

[Brent Dalton]

The issue isn't that he is trying to correct you. The issue is that you attempt to speak authoritatively and never provide any evidence or proof, only that you have tons and tons experience... which seems to be your tangent response to everything once someone asks you for a real example or specific details. As we have all mentioned... this is the internet, most of us don't know one another. Our opinions don't mean anything to one another generally in this section without real, quantified data. I'm not attempting to get in a pissing contest as I don't think I could care any less (especially this subject). I'm giving my opinion as how you are perceived in the track section. I generally scroll past your posts as opinion posts with no substance.

 

[mustang_guy]

The issue isn't that he is trying to correct you. The issue is that you attempt to speak authoritatively and never provide any evidence or proof, only that you have tons and tons experience... which seems to be your tangent response to everything once someone asks you for a real example or specific details. As we have all mentioned... this is the internet, most of us don't know one another. Our opinions don't mean anything to one another generally in this section without real, quantified data. I'm not attempting to get in a pissing contest as I don't think I could care any less (especially this subject). I'm giving my opinion as how you are perceived in the track section. I generally scroll past your posts as opinion posts with no substance.

There isnt always a link to real world experience and knowledge. Sorry you cant find benefit in that. I can understand how youd form that opinion and im okay with that. With that said im perfectly fine with someone chosing to disregard what i say. Im not here to win popularity, if people want to find what i say not informative or lies its their loss, not mine.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I've just read through this entire thread, and the thing that stands out in my mind is that nobody has even attempted to correlate viscosity index to absolute viscosity. They aren't the same thing, as there's a high dependence on temperature.

MC in 5W20 may well be 'adequate' for relatively low oil temperatures and "normal street driving" that presumably implies easier driving than Mustang GT's are prone to seeing. 'Adequate' means that the oil will measure acceptably close to what the absolute viscosity of 20-weight oil is at whatever that DD temperature is, which is apparently acceptable to Ford even from the warranty point of view.

When you take that same car out on the track for 20 minutes or more, your oil will run considerably warmer, and will be thinner in absolute terms as a result. But the engine still needs at least the same amount of protection as it did at the DD temperature with 20-weight, meaning that you do need to look at oils with bigger hot numbers.

There will be a temperature above that DD oil temperature where the absolute viscosity of (for example) 30-weight will be equal to 20-weight at the DD temperature. If that happens to fall about where your track temperatures are, then you'd need to step up at least to 5W30. My own suggestion would be to make the step to full-synthetic at the same time.

Some engineer, ex-Ford with knowledge of this topic beyond what I think is present here, first name Scott (IIRC), wouldn't run 5W20 at least in semi-syn in any modular motor. Period.


Norm

Sponsored