HPDE oil weight

[Magnificent Bastard]

Hard to believe that would really hurt anything, tbh. Would love to see some oil analysis test results posted after an interval on a good 5w30.

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[mustang_guy]

Hard to believe that would really hurt anything, tbh. Would love to see some oil analysis test results posted after an interval on a good 5w30.

Check out Unleashedbeasts coyote and boss uoa thread on svtp. Both engines have used it and been perfectly fine.

 

[Magnificent Bastard]

Good deal, will take a look. I personally think the near-universal 5w20 recommendation over the past several years is a sop to EPA and CAFE regulations, and to an extent a dodge by car manufacturers. While the EPA and car companies want it to be as thin as possible for best MPG without doing *too* much wear on the engine, I personally prefer it to be as thick as possible while still maintaining good oil pressure and coverage through the pump and journals. My engines > MPG. In the end, the oil analysis tells the story best.

BTW, it's interesting to note that in many examples of Ford vehicles, the ones they sell in America recommend 5w20, but Ford recommends (and requires for warranty purposes) 5w30 when sold in Europe and elsewhere. Not to pick on Ford, as most global manufacturers also do this. But it does make you think...

 

[mustang_guy]

Good deal, will take a look. I personally think the near-universal 5w20 recommendation over the past several years is a sop to EPA and CAFE regulations, and to an extent a dodge by car manufacturers. While the EPA and car companies want it to be as thin as possible for best MPG without doing *too* much wear on the engine, I personally prefer it to be as thick as possible while still maintaining good oil pressure and coverage through the pump and journals. My engines > MPG. In the end, the oil analysis tells the story best.

BTW, it's interesting to note that in many examples of Ford vehicles, the ones they sell in America recommend 5w20, but Ford recommends (and requires for warranty purposes) 5w30 when sold in Europe and elsewhere. Not to pick on Ford, as most global manufacturers also do this. But it does make you think...

Ive been saying that as well with cafe/epa and ive also brought up the 5w30 in Europe but i get the guys that are all "the engineeers know best and it was designed with 5w20 in mind." Afraid not folks :lol: Its all about the bean counters. Its cheaper to replace the occasional engine under warranty than deal with with not meeting current standards. The things i saw sometimes during my time being a ford master tech absolutely baffled me. Its apparently calculated to be cheaper long term to put a bad taste in some customers mouth than absolutely doing things that last. Im not just reffering to motor oil either. For example the whole notion of crown vics rear diffs having life time fluid was rubbish. They didnt even sell a gasket kit. You just had to take off the cover, rtv it and fill if you didn't want to waste a perfectly good differential. I cant tell you how many police interceptors rear ends i replaced. At bmw we also say that the auto tranmissions have life time fluid. Come 100-130k typically its time for a new trans because its slipping and they are out 5-7500 plus labor. :lol:

 

[Magnificent Bastard]

I heard once that there was actually something to the "5w20 design" theory regarding the evolution of the 5.4 3v Tritons - something about the cam phasers requiring a ludicrously high level of oil pressure in later years that you wouldn't achieve without really thin oil. Could be BS, who knows, but I've never heard a good explanation why, say, a last-gen Fusion requires 5w20 in the States and 5w30 everywhere else for the same exact engine.

So yes - there's a scam factor there, and I think there's ample evidence to prove it.

 

[Optimum Performance]

Kicking around switching to 5w30. About time to change the oil out in my new ST1 Focus and it calls for 5w30. Would be nice for both of em to use the same oil. Ive been using Driven FR20 in the Mustang but would switch to Driven 5w30. Any issues with this for track and street duty?

Not at all. It doesn't know the difference when cold, when warm it will have a slightly higher viscosity. It may build a little more heat but also maintain viscosity at elevated temps.

 

[sigintel]

Anyone have the bearing clearance specs?
Where is the oil pressure sensor?

If the bearing is designed for 5w20, how does increasing viscosity help?
Why not run 80W if higher is better?

What is the failure cause?
Overheat from too little flow?
Or oil get too thin where clearances allowed too much pressure drop at bearing?

If the failure was at the drag strip despite 100s of highway pulls, then the only real difference is on the highway the oil was warmer?

Could be wrong, but think many failures I have heard of oil pump and bearings has been at strip or within first 30 minutes from cold start. I just wait till CHT 190+ for 5 minutes before WOT. This could be >20 minutes from cold start.

For HPDE, Id expect 210-260F CHT and just find a viscosity that is equivalent at 245F to whatever 5w20 is at 205.
Maybe run 5w-30?
Just keep in mind that upping viscosity decreases bearing flow and thus bearing cooling.
At 275 the oil is starting to break down, so with only 30F margin, I would be very careful upping viscosity and decreasing bearing flow.

Anyone else find upping viscosity increased temperatures?

 

[wildcatgoal]

I have used 5w30 thus far. I may try 5w40. Can't say I have any factual basis to do so...

 

[Must_Tang]

This is a long read, but contains good info on oil viscosity and ratings. It's authored by an engineer who has done his own testing.

Thicker is not better....

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

 

[BmacIL]

Anyone have the bearing clearance specs?
Where is the oil pressure sensor?

If the bearing is designed for 5w20, how does increasing viscosity help?
Why not run 80W if higher is better?

What is the failure cause?
Overheat from too little flow?
Or oil get too thin where clearances allowed too much pressure drop at bearing?

If the failure was at the drag strip, and the only difference between that pull and several highway pulls, then the only real difference then is on the highway the oil was warmer?

Could be wrong, but think many failures I have heard of oil pump and bearings has been at strip or within first 20 minutes from cold start. I just wait till CHT 190+ for 5 minutes before WOT. This could be >20 minutes from cold start.

For HPDE, Id expect 210-240F CHT and just find a viscosity that is equivalent at 245F to whatever 5w20 is at 205.
Maybe run 5w-30?
Just keep in mind that upping viscosity decreases bearing flow and thus bearing cooling.
At 275 the oil is starting to break down, so with only 30F margin, I would be very careful upping viscosity and decrease bearing flow.

Anyone else find upping viscosity increased temperatures?

I would agree with this.

Also, a great indicator for warm oil is enabling Launch Control feature in the track apps. When the LC comes up in your cluster, your oil is nice and warm. I don't go WOT or much over 3000 rpm until I see that (particularly important with the very, very cold weather we have here).

 

[sonicc]

If the bearing is designed for 5w20, how does increasing viscosity help?
Why not run 80W if higher is better?

The argument here is that under track conditions and higher engine heat, the 5w30 is basically a 5w20 oil, while the 5w20 is not a 5w20 any more and will break down faster. In '11-14 5.0's it was recommended - by Ford - to run 5w30 in track pack mustangs, while in s550 there's no mention of it.

You're definitely welcome to that opinion. But id like to ask what i have to gain from omissions?

I wasn't saying that you were purposely omitting info, I just don't see why Rotella T6 would cause engine failures.

In regards to life time transmission fluid, it seems like all european car manufacturers do this. It's a terrible thing because many transmissions end up getting ruined.

 

[Competition Orange]

The argument here is that under track conditions and higher engine heat, the 5w30 is basically a 5w20 oil, while the 5w20 is not a 5w20 any more and will break down faster. In '11-14 5.0's it was recommended - by Ford - to run 5w30 in track pack mustangs, while in s550 there's no mention of it.

I'm pretty sure it was 5w50, like the Boss engines call for...

 

[EFI]

I'm pretty sure it was 5w50, like the Boss engines call for...

So if the 11-14 Coyote engine and it's specs can handle anywhere from 5w20 oil all the way to 5w50 oil, then why wouldn't a Gen 2?

I can't imagine that Ford was able to build an engine capable of safely handling that big of a difference in viscosity but then all of a sudden stopped and went back to making an engine that can handle one very specific viscosity eg. 5w20.

 

[wildcatgoal]

Wouldn't it be nice if Ford came out and said - if this engine is going to be used for track sessions, it should be filled with 5WXX? I mean... just f'ing say what it needs, Ford! We can't sue you because the engine blew on on the track due to oil issues just like we can't sue you for 5w20 on the street... just not gonna happen. Just say what your engineers have decided it needs in that particular application. And if you say 5w20 is it... okay.

 

[mustang_guy]

So if the 11-14 Coyote engine and it's specs can handle anywhere from 5w20 oil all the way to 5w50 oil, then why wouldn't a Gen 2?

I can't imagine that Ford was able to build an engine capable of safely handling that big of a difference in viscosity but then all of a sudden stopped and went back to making an engine that can handle one very specific viscosity eg. 5w20.

It can. You have a modern roadrunner engine. The 5w20 is all for epa

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