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5.0 Coyote vs LS3/LT1 GM engines - how do they compare?

markmurfie

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This has been an engineering dream for a long time.

But just the inclusion of actuators per valve that themselves can wear out and the expnse of them makes this prohibitive for the time being. You'll see it first in very exclusive customer rides. Be a while before it can be made reliable enough for mass market or cheap enough. Definitely a superior way to go when the cost and actuator longevity hurdles are resolved.
It is definitely superior to cams. Cost and longevity I fear will never allow this to become production ready for economy cars.

All you have to do is read some valve less, not cam less, patents and you will question why engines still have valves, cams, or even butterfly valve throttle bodies.
Some ideas are so simple yet seem to have so much potential. Maybe I'm just ignorant to facts that would cause the ideas to not work or be less efficient than valves and cams. Just like valves and cams got improved I'm sure some clever ideas could improve the simple ideas these patents have.

One patent as an example was two hollow tubes one inside the other with port window holes cut out of both. The outer tube all Windows were cut in a single line leading into the cylinder. The inner tube had holes in sorta a diagonal line and as it rotated the Windows would open and close as they lined up just like valves except with no valve in the middle of the hole so a very high amount of air is allowed in. With the hole being equivalent to the intake port size there would be no restriction in air flow into cylinder. To control throttle all you would need to do is slide the outer tube to offset the Windows and closing the intake port size. No valve float means the engines could go up to higher rpms and only be limited by connecting rod strength. The tubes would replace the intake manifold completel. Heads would have a radically different design and be repurpose to transport air from tube manifold to cylinder which is what they do now but have the valve train to feel with as well. To improve it compression fan blades like how a jet engine/turbo/ supercharger works could be used to compress air into tubes manifold. Strategic baffles placed between Windows in the inner tube could also replicate modern intake manifold tuning and improve air flow into heads drastically. A vct equivalent would be a third hollow tube that rotated with the inner tube and was phased to change duration while the first inner tube would phase to change where in the stroke the duration occurred. You could apply the same concept to and exhaust manifold setup like this and eliminate valves, improve upon valves, but retain all the benifits of vct.

I might have that backwards the outter tubes rotating and the inner stationary that would position it move like classic valves. Its been awhile since I read the patent and I cant even find it anymore.
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pietran30

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Answer his question and you'll have your answer.

It's over man. Sorry. But he really just ended the discussion.
Wtf? The displacement has nothing to do with the size and weight of the motor.

Motor A makes 500 hp and weighs 700 lbs while motor B makes 510 hp but weighs 800 lbs. If placed in identical cars, which will be faster?

Hp/L means jack shit.

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Tm@c1965

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A better question is....

What would the S550 or Camaro be like with a 392 Hemi? More torque, better torque curve, more Horse Power.
 

Genxer

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What would the S550 or Camaro be like with a 392 Hemi? More torque, better torque curve, more Horse Power.
Dodge needed more torque for their fat pig car to be fast. They are more aggressively geared too. That engine in the GM or Ford would be a beast.
 

Khell86

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Answer the question, which engine is larger. For the slow.
Doesnt the LT1 now weigh more than the Coyote motor? Hell doesn't the Voodoo motor weigh less than the Coyote motor? Maybe at one point in time OHC motors weighed more, but I think thats no longer the case.
 

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1320'

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Doesnt the LT1 now weigh more than the Coyote motor? Hell doesn't the Voodoo motor weigh less than the Coyote motor? Maybe at one point in time OHC motors weighed more, but I think thats no longer the case.
The LT1 weighs more and I think is within 1" in all directions to the Coyote. The whole "OHC engines are sooo heavy" thing has been dramatically overblown by LSX fans. In reality I think the Coyote only weighs around 5-10lbs more fully dressed to fully dressed.

The Voodoo weighs less than the Coyote due in part to things like the gun drilled crank, composite oil pan and a few other things.
 

Tm@c1965

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I like my fat pig car

Dodge needed more torque for their fat pig car to be fast. They are more aggressively geared too. That engine in the GM or Ford would be a beast.
...and it IS FAST. But I would really like to see a motor similar to the 392 in a Stang. It would be a horrific monster beast.
 

1320'

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I remember someone who talked with "someone" from the Romeo engine plant and said that they were "making a new big block" or something like that. Now obviously it wouldn't be a TRUE big block, however they may be referring to something in the 5.8L range.
There is some backing to this, since the plant was down for a few days, and then a section of the plant, the special line, was blocked off and couldn't be viewed.

That means either special work on the 5.2 or a new engine. My guess is special work on the 5.2 since going with a larger motor, with bigger bore centers, etc...would be very expensive and very, very difficult to hide.
 

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...and it IS FAST. But I would really like to see a motor similar to the 392 in a Stang. It would be a horrific monster beast.
Who wouldn't want to see a 485 hp and 475 lbft in a stang! Imagine on top of it, the car looses 100 lbs or so. 392 with a tune puts down around 440 whp and 440 lbft, which is glorious!
 

legendary mustang

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Who wouldn't want to see a 485 hp and 475 lbft in a stang! Imagine on top of it, the car looses 100 lbs or so. 392 with a tune puts down around 440 whp and 440 lbft, which is glorious!
i said from the start that the new mustang should have started out with 475hp.435 to me was pathetic.also as of now,if the gt mustang gets 475hp or more,shortly after that at some point the GT350 would need a power increase.:cheers::ford:
 

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The LT1 weighs more and I think is within 1" in all directions to the Coyote.
I would say the LT1 is much smaller in size in the distance between the exhaust manifolds. The DOHC motors are very wide up top from exhaust manifold to exhaust manifold.
 

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I would say the LT1 is much smaller in size in the distance between the exhaust manifolds. The DOHC motors are very wide up top from exhaust manifold to exhaust manifold.

41ff84f19b22073d29abf3d940681287.jpg


Always a good way to explain size difference between DOHC and OHV.
 

200MPHCOBRA

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I remember someone who talked with "someone" from the Romeo engine plant and said that they were "making a new big block" or something like that. Now obviously it wouldn't be a TRUE big block, however they may be referring to something in the 5.8L range.
There is some backing to this, since the plant was down for a few days, and then a section of the plant, the special line, was blocked off and couldn't be viewed.

That means either special work on the 5.2 or a new engine. My guess is special work on the 5.2 since going with a larger motor, with bigger bore centers, etc...would be very expensive and very, very difficult to hide.
If Ford spreads the bores its game set match. The motor would only need to be 1" longer and 1/4" wider to kill all others, plenty of engine compartment room for that. Then hp/ci will suddenly matter to some here.
 

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Answer his question and you'll have your answer.

It's over man. Sorry. But he really just ended the discussion.
Well Im going to figure that you and Eddie are also under the impression that displacement equals mass or size which then renders you both useless to the rest of this converation.
 

9secondko

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Wtf? The displacement has nothing to do with the size and weight of the motor.

Motor A makes 500 hp and weighs 700 lbs while motor B makes 510 hp but weighs 800 lbs. If placed in identical cars, which will be faster?

Hp/L means jack shit.

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Cool story bro.

The entirety of the industry disagrees with you. Good company.
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