What a difference an engine makes

[Scylla]

I bought my Porsche Cayman 8 months ago. It meant the world to me; I know the value of a pound (cue violins), and I honestly never thought that I’d be driving a brand new Porsche.

I’m now in the process of trading it for a Mustang GT. There are lots of reasons why, but ultimately it comes down to the engine.

The Cayman is a superb machine. Its talent blows me away. I think it’s probably a superior example of engineering to the Mustang, but it doesn’t matter to me. The engine in the GT literally makes the hair stand up on my neck and arms.

My Cayman has the flat-4 turbo, which sounds great sometimes but also has an unpleasant nasally boominess at other times that takes me out of the moment. Makes me wonder if I’d have looked towards the Mustang if my Cayman had the older NA flat six?

Sponsored

 

[marks]

Yes the old Cayman with the six cylinder was a sensation car, especially the GT4.

 

[SteveS]

You're saying all the right things. I think you'll be ok...

 

[302@12psi]

Black and white. I have a 2019 PP2 GT and I wish I could have worked out a Cayman or 911 however it was out of the budget.

Apples and Oranges I guess.

 

[jord79]

Funny how it boils down to how the engine sounds! I totally understand that though. I’m nearing the end of my PCP deal on the ‘16 GT and am considering letting it go partly because I can’t get the engine to sound ‘right’. There are other reasons but I can’t help thinking that if the proper muscle car rumble was nailed on, there would be no question I’d be keeping the car.

 

[v8hgt]

Funny how it boils down to how the engine sounds! I totally understand that though. I’m nearing the end of my PCP deal on the ‘16 GT and am considering letting it go partly because I can’t get the engine to sound ‘right’. There are other reasons but I can’t help thinking that if the proper muscle car rumble was nailed on, there would be no question I’d be keeping the car.

I’m fairly sure you will never get an old school rumble from a coyote. You would stand more chance with a Camaro, challenger or Merc c63.

 

[Flamesey]

I had the flat 6 in my boxster, loved it and didn’t like the 718 motor but nothing beats rev match in the manual V8 in track exhaust mode lol

 

[GW65]

I’m fairly sure you will never get an old school rumble from a coyote. You would stand more chance with a Camaro, challenger or Merc c63.

Haven't heard a Challenger up close, but totally agree about NA Merc V8s - sound from MB World is one of the best things about going to Brooklands As for the Camaro, I've got basically the same engine in my Vette but you can never get old school rumble either - you can have low-and-drone (which I went for with Borla Stinger) or high-and-raspy (usually Corsa Sport/Extreme) ... It's partly due to the length of the main pipes, pipes running too close to do a long-enough h-pipe (most have x-pipe anyway) and silencer position, but also firing order (or so I'm told). The '18+ Mustang with the active exhaust is more tenor than bass, but it's definitely a cleaner V8 (new school) rumble than I've heard on an LS- or LT-engined Vette.

 

[jord79]

I’m fairly sure you will never get an old school rumble from a coyote. You would stand more chance with a Camaro, challenger or Merc c63.

This I know. I’ve heard great sound clips from challengers that have had an exhaust fitted with a mid mounted, chambered muffler. Not practical on the Mustang. Problem with Challengers and Camaros is that the steering wheel is on the wrong side and the C63 is about 3 times over my budget! . Also a bit too fancy for my liking.

Might end up weighing in for a sensible daily and going proper old school for aural pleasure, so to speak.

 

[Pilgrim/uk]

I always thought the roush axle backs gave a nice v8 burble myself on the coyote engine .

 

[Entai]

The old school burble is as near to impossible to recreate on a new V8 as isn't worth mentioning.

It all boils down to the fact the engines have been manufactured so completely differently, and are almost polar opposites of each other.

You can mess with the exhaust all you like but it will make little difference.

It is all to do with the mechanics of the engine itself.

All modern muscle cars have aluminium blocks (vs 60's and 70's cast iron), modern V8's have round exhaust ports (vs rectangular), and completely different timing set ups than 60s cars have.

The firing order makes a big difference because nobody fires 2 in a row on the same side of the engine anymore.

Thus engines have much better balance now and are smoother sounding. It's also one of the reasons red lines are so much higher.

The thin walled aluminium blocks and heads resonates sound so much more differently than cast iron did and even things like 6 bolt mains change engine resonance through the block giving you a tighter tinny sound.

Of course just like air blowing over valves in a trumpet, the shape of the combustion chambers and exhaust ports changes the exhaust note as well as the whole engine note.

However the main difference, and what you need to change if you really want that burble, is in the crankshaft.

Traditionally, a V8 is fitted with a cross-plane crankshaft, giving a left, right, left, left, right, left, right, right firing order that’s uneven across the two cylinder banks. That’s what makes the whole burble thing happen.

A modern flat-plane crank V8 on the other hand gives an ‘even’ left, right, left, right firing order. It does so without the counterweights found on a cross-plane V8, meaning the crank has a lower rotational mass. That’s a good thing, since it results in a lighter engine that can rev faster and higher, but it does result in more vibration and a lack of that burble.

In short the only way to get the 60s sound is with a 60s car.

Traditionally most American V8's have been Cross plane, and the majority of European V8's have been higher freer reeving flat plane V8's.

However that is changing more now. AFAIK All AMG Mercedes V8's are cross plane, hence sounding better than the flatplane Coyote Mustang

If you want to get a close as possible in modern Mustang to the old school burble, get a 5.2l Voodoo engine (not the 5.0l Coyote) and fit that. It has a cross plane crank, vs the Coyote's flat plane, so is physically closer to the old 60's and 70's engines.

It is still an aluminium engine though with newer combustion chambers and ports, so even a Voodoo will never get a true "old School" burble, as the resonances will never be the same.

 

[Pilgrim/uk]

Not so sure myself i agree with porting and aluminium may make a diff but for a start the the coyote engine isnt a flat plane crank engine thats the voodoo engine on the gt 350 and the firing order is 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 for the coyote engine

8 and 6 being on the same side

 

[hinch]

Not so sure myself i agree with porting and aluminium may make a diff but for a start the the coyote engine isnt a flat plane crank engine thats the voodoo engine on the gt 350 and the firing order is 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 for the coyote engine

8 and 6 being on the same side

the coyote also has square with rounded corner ports too not circular

 

[marks]

If you want to get a close as possible in modern Mustang to the old school burble, get a 5.2l Voodoo engine (not the 5.0l Coyote) and fit that. /QUOTE]

Would love to but Ford UK decided not to give us the GT350! Fools

 

[marks]

The main problem with the C63 AMG is no stick option, and it looks like a box on wheels

Sponsored