andrewtac
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #1
Posting this in case someone else has my same issues, as I could not find much on this.
I purchased a used 10 rib kit, no instructions. I had a shop put in my built motor and new V13-94c (work two full time jobs, no time to work on the car). I did not have a 10 rib water pump pulley, and ARS was out of stock. I got an ESS 10 rib water pump pulley. On the dyno they had some belt rub issues, but they made some pulls.
I got the car back, went for the maiden voyage and immediately realized I was having serious belt rub issues. It was so bad if I went WOT for more then about 3 seconds the cabin would have smoke from the belts in it. ESS 10 rib pulley is bigger than the ARS, this caused not enough spacing between the balancer and water pump pulley, the belt rubbed on itself. Took the car in for an alignment, shredded the belt driving it on the rack.
On the vortech, when you shred a belt the blower can eat the belt, which rips out a seal, which cost about $1,000 to fix (shipping there and back and rebuild). While the bower was at vortech I got a laser belt alignment tool. Also, ARS is stocking the 10 rib pulley again. I replace the water pump pulley and check everything the best I can with the laser, it all seems to check out. (However, it is almost impossible to check the far grooved idler pulley; more on that in a bit). I also replaced the ARS tensioner with a new one, thinking this could be it as well. Well they changed them, and now the stem the pulley rides on can accommodate a single or double bearing pulley. This does not work if you have a double bearing, I found out later. With the old style tensioner the bolt threaded into that extend stem and either bottomed out on the shaft or almost. The new style with the short stem stretches the bolts and they eventually shear (did two of them). I think due to the 10 rib, I have to put much more torque on it to get it over the pulley than I did on the 6 or 8 rib. Also, limited belt sizes in the 10 rib; the grooved pulley in the only slot it will work in; looser and the belt bottoms out with RPM and bounces. It is in the 2nd hole from the left.
With the new water pump pulley, and after a couple weeks wait on the V13 repair I get it all together. Initially it looks good, I idle it for a bit, bump it up to about 3k; everything looks great. Go for a ride, made a few WOT hits. The front rib of the belt rips off, and yes the vortech ate it again, leaks (but just a little, not repairing it until I have the belt sorted). The 10 rib belt was now a 8 or 9 rib belt and stayed on. With the car running, the belt was lined up on the engine side on all the pulleys except the far grooved idler pulley. The belt was lined up on the front edge of this pulley. Also, it was hanging off of the two adjacent smooth idler pullies slightly. Isolated the problem sort of, I knew it was somewhere in the idler pullies on the vortech bracket.
My first thoughts were to measure all the spacers to make sure the shop put the bracket on correctly (I am still going to go back and do this). I started pulling everything apart and found what I thought was the problem. The first issue was the smooth idler pullies were all on backwards. One direction they sit closer to the engine, the other they stick out a little; belt was hanging off the front of them and thought this was pushing the belt forward under rpm. Well they need to stick out a little, swapped them all. The next issue was the spacer on the grooved idler pulley; it was spacer from either my 8 or 6 rib kit. It was about 3 mm taller. Unfortunately, ARS no longer makes the kits so I can't get the correct spacer. I used a belt sander and now I have the proper height spacer.
I put everything back together, I have my son idle the car up. 2k, 3k, 4k looks good. Somewhere between 4 and 5k the belt jumps off the front of the grooved pulley. Glad I didn't send the blower back yet. The belt stayed on, but was hanging off that pulley.
I was FB messaging with someone and they had similar issues and said they had to slightly space out the grooved pulley for belts to stay on. At this point, I thought well maybe the extra tall spacer was the correct one. Put it back on, idled up to 2,3,4,5,6,7k stayed on the grooved pulley; however the belt was hanging off the front of the two adjacent smooth idler pullies. The belt is visually moved out from the tensioner to the grooved idler pulley; however it is staying on. I know riding off the front of those smooth idler pullies is going to cause issues at RPM down the road. I put the short spacer back on with a washer. The washer was about 1.5mm. Same check, upto 7k; all looks good. Belt stays on the grooved idler and is on the smooth ones as well. I have a 2mm thick washer coming I might try as well later; I think it needs to go a little further.
I drove a little yesterday, made a few WOT hits (just a few seconds) belt was good. Today I made a few more WOT hits, held it a little longer 3k to 7.5k; belt still good. Passed the daytime test. I am going to put a new belt on and try for some 3k-8k with a shift at WOT and ride it out a little. I need night time (cooler weather and less cars) and no rain; might be a little before I can test again. If all good, I'll get the blower fixed then it will be time to open the nitrous bottle and get some logs.
I had started pricing twins I was so fed up with this. This is a very short summary of the events. I have been dealing with this since end of February, numerous hours, trial and error. I'll monitor this thread if anyone else is having issues; hopefully someone can learn from my trials (best lesson is just do turbos).
I purchased a used 10 rib kit, no instructions. I had a shop put in my built motor and new V13-94c (work two full time jobs, no time to work on the car). I did not have a 10 rib water pump pulley, and ARS was out of stock. I got an ESS 10 rib water pump pulley. On the dyno they had some belt rub issues, but they made some pulls.
I got the car back, went for the maiden voyage and immediately realized I was having serious belt rub issues. It was so bad if I went WOT for more then about 3 seconds the cabin would have smoke from the belts in it. ESS 10 rib pulley is bigger than the ARS, this caused not enough spacing between the balancer and water pump pulley, the belt rubbed on itself. Took the car in for an alignment, shredded the belt driving it on the rack.
On the vortech, when you shred a belt the blower can eat the belt, which rips out a seal, which cost about $1,000 to fix (shipping there and back and rebuild). While the bower was at vortech I got a laser belt alignment tool. Also, ARS is stocking the 10 rib pulley again. I replace the water pump pulley and check everything the best I can with the laser, it all seems to check out. (However, it is almost impossible to check the far grooved idler pulley; more on that in a bit). I also replaced the ARS tensioner with a new one, thinking this could be it as well. Well they changed them, and now the stem the pulley rides on can accommodate a single or double bearing pulley. This does not work if you have a double bearing, I found out later. With the old style tensioner the bolt threaded into that extend stem and either bottomed out on the shaft or almost. The new style with the short stem stretches the bolts and they eventually shear (did two of them). I think due to the 10 rib, I have to put much more torque on it to get it over the pulley than I did on the 6 or 8 rib. Also, limited belt sizes in the 10 rib; the grooved pulley in the only slot it will work in; looser and the belt bottoms out with RPM and bounces. It is in the 2nd hole from the left.
With the new water pump pulley, and after a couple weeks wait on the V13 repair I get it all together. Initially it looks good, I idle it for a bit, bump it up to about 3k; everything looks great. Go for a ride, made a few WOT hits. The front rib of the belt rips off, and yes the vortech ate it again, leaks (but just a little, not repairing it until I have the belt sorted). The 10 rib belt was now a 8 or 9 rib belt and stayed on. With the car running, the belt was lined up on the engine side on all the pulleys except the far grooved idler pulley. The belt was lined up on the front edge of this pulley. Also, it was hanging off of the two adjacent smooth idler pullies slightly. Isolated the problem sort of, I knew it was somewhere in the idler pullies on the vortech bracket.
My first thoughts were to measure all the spacers to make sure the shop put the bracket on correctly (I am still going to go back and do this). I started pulling everything apart and found what I thought was the problem. The first issue was the smooth idler pullies were all on backwards. One direction they sit closer to the engine, the other they stick out a little; belt was hanging off the front of them and thought this was pushing the belt forward under rpm. Well they need to stick out a little, swapped them all. The next issue was the spacer on the grooved idler pulley; it was spacer from either my 8 or 6 rib kit. It was about 3 mm taller. Unfortunately, ARS no longer makes the kits so I can't get the correct spacer. I used a belt sander and now I have the proper height spacer.
I put everything back together, I have my son idle the car up. 2k, 3k, 4k looks good. Somewhere between 4 and 5k the belt jumps off the front of the grooved pulley. Glad I didn't send the blower back yet. The belt stayed on, but was hanging off that pulley.
I was FB messaging with someone and they had similar issues and said they had to slightly space out the grooved pulley for belts to stay on. At this point, I thought well maybe the extra tall spacer was the correct one. Put it back on, idled up to 2,3,4,5,6,7k stayed on the grooved pulley; however the belt was hanging off the front of the two adjacent smooth idler pullies. The belt is visually moved out from the tensioner to the grooved idler pulley; however it is staying on. I know riding off the front of those smooth idler pullies is going to cause issues at RPM down the road. I put the short spacer back on with a washer. The washer was about 1.5mm. Same check, upto 7k; all looks good. Belt stays on the grooved idler and is on the smooth ones as well. I have a 2mm thick washer coming I might try as well later; I think it needs to go a little further.
I drove a little yesterday, made a few WOT hits (just a few seconds) belt was good. Today I made a few more WOT hits, held it a little longer 3k to 7.5k; belt still good. Passed the daytime test. I am going to put a new belt on and try for some 3k-8k with a shift at WOT and ride it out a little. I need night time (cooler weather and less cars) and no rain; might be a little before I can test again. If all good, I'll get the blower fixed then it will be time to open the nitrous bottle and get some logs.
I had started pricing twins I was so fed up with this. This is a very short summary of the events. I have been dealing with this since end of February, numerous hours, trial and error. I'll monitor this thread if anyone else is having issues; hopefully someone can learn from my trials (best lesson is just do turbos).
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