UPR DV Catch Can emitting crank-case odor ...

[stangs-R-me]

First MOD I did back when I got the car in May 2016 was put on a UPR Dual Valve Catch Can ... car had less than 30 miles on it and 6.5 months later it has around 12k miles.

UPR Checks are correctly oriented per their diagram (checked more than once) ... captured about 1 oz. after the first 1000 miles and has captured about 12~15 oz. total to date.

Problem is I smell crankcase fumes INSIDE the car all the time when sitting at stop lights and can smell it when shut off in the garage or when I'm under the hood working on stuff. The odor is strongest right around the DV CC.

Back when car was two weeks old, I thought I'd seen smoke out the tail pipes so I figured it could be actually burning oil so I posted this thread ...
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56270

I never could actually smell anything out the tailpipes though, but bought it into the dealer to have them check it out and they narrowed it down to the DV CC which made me feel pretty dumb bringing it in.

I then noticed the (3) 1/4" NPT nipples in the can appeared to have no thread sealer on them so I added good mil-spec teflon tape. As there is not a lot of thread engagement I later changed the tape out for Permatex 2 ... neither made a difference as the smell is still there.

I've inspected the upper O-Ring a couple of times (last time was today) and it appears to be fine, and the lower o-ring and drain plug have got to be fine as they are both below "liquid level" and it has always been dry as a bone down there.

So I've got to have a vapor leak at one of the 3 nipples, the upper o-ring or one of the hoses.

Only way I can think to test all of this is to remove complete system off of car, get 3 extra nipples to fit in the hose ends with FM pipe caps added to 2 of them and a shop air QD on the third. Then submerge in a tub of water and apply a few pounds of shop air pressure to find the leak !!

I strongly believe in catch cans especially on a direct injected engine, so removing the DVCC for a week to to see if smell is completely gone is something I really don't want to do. I also really believe the DV design is superior to all others, so I'm not all that keen on dropping the cash on a different system either.

UPR ... can I get three of these special nipples to do the test I mention above ??

Kit was ordered NEW from Lethal Performance in Feb 2016.

Also, what size and type O-Ring do you use on the can ends ... I measured 2.25" I.D. / 2.37" OD which would be a -035, guessing 70 Durometer Buna-N but want to know for sure.

Doug

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[TheLion]

First MOD I did back when I got the car in May 2016 was put on a UPR Dual Valve Catch Can ... car had less than 30 miles on it and 6.5 months later it has around 12k miles.

UPR Checks are correctly oriented per their diagram (checked more than once) ... captured about 1 oz. after the first 1000 miles and has captured about 12~15 oz. total to date.

Problem is I smell crankcase fumes INSIDE the car all the time when sitting at stop lights and can smell it when shut off in the garage or when I'm under the hood working on stuff. The odor is strongest right around the DV CC.

Back when car was two weeks old, I thought I'd seen smoke out the tail pipes so I figured it could be actually burning oil so I posted this thread ...
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56270

I never could actually smell anything out the tailpipes though, but bought it into the dealer to have them check it out and they narrowed it down to the DV CC which made me feel pretty dumb bringing it in.

I then noticed the (3) 1/4" NPT nipples in the can appeared to have no thread sealer on them so I added good mil-spec teflon tape. As there is not a lot of thread engagement I later changed the tape out for Permatex 2 ... neither made a difference as the smell is still there.

I've inspected the upper O-Ring a couple of times (last time was today) and it appears to be fine, and the lower o-ring and drain plug have got to be fine as they are both below "liquid level" and it has always been dry as a bone down there.

So I've got to have a vapor leak at one of the 3 nipples, the upper o-ring or one of the hoses.

Only way I can think to test all of this is to remove complete system off of car, get 3 extra nipples to fit in the hose ends with FM pipe caps added to 2 of them and a shop air QD on the third. Then submerge in a tub of water and apply a few pounds of shop air pressure to find the leak !!

I strongly believe in catch cans especially on a direct injected engine, so removing the DVCC for a week to to see if smell is completely gone is something I really don't want to do. I also really believe the DV design is superior to all others, so I'm not all that keen on dropping the cash on a different system either.

UPR ... can I get three of these special nipples to do the test I mention above ??

Kit was ordered NEW from Lethal Performance in Feb 2016.

Also, what size and type O-Ring do you use on the can ends ... I measured 2.25" I.D. / 2.37" OD which would be a -035, guessing 70 Durometer Buna-N but want to know for sure.

Doug

Wow, dejavu! I have a May 2016 build and a UPR DVCC, same issue. I have found a couple of things that have helped, but the weather got cold before I could implement them completely.

1. Juben suggested wrapping the nipples with teflon tape to provide a tighter seal, I was able to do that on the catch can nipples and the boost side nipple at the turbo inlet, but never got the time to do it on the PCV nipple or the throttle body nipple so there are still two sources to potentially leak a bit.

2. Once my oil was due for a change (first change at 9,400 miles, Oil life indicator had 8% life estimate remaining), I switched over to AMSOIL Signature series 5W-30. While I'm not trying to start an oil thread debate, it is hands down one of the best performing oils on the market period.

It scores top in 4 of 6 tests and is in the top 2 or 3 in the two remaining tests. Why does this matter? Because the NOAC (aka the amount of oil which boils off during the test) score is very low (aka low boil off). Which means you'll have less in the catch can period to emit that odor. By the way, my oil consumption with the Motor Craft oil was nearly identical to yours. I use exactly 16 oz (1/2 quart) in 9400 miles with a lot of hard driving (WOT pulls, with passengers, uphill during 90+F days).

On my 2016 however, that oil / exhaust / fuel odor was present even before I modified the car, but not nearly as strong and certainly not strong enough to smell it in the car.

3. You could try thicker o-rings in the quick disconnect fitting as opposed to the teflon tape, which I might try myself once it warms up again in spring, the odor is certainly much less of an issue during winter as temps are now down in 30's here, so I'm not going to bother until it warms up again, but keep us updated on how well these things work out for you.

 

[SYK]

FYI
Per discussion on NPT, tapered threads are self sealing. Teflon helps (by lubricating) getting correct number of turns past finger tight without requiring excess amount of torque. Teflon itself doesnt help seal it.

 

[stangs-R-me]

FYI
Per discussion on NPT, tapered threads are self sealing. Teflon helps (by lubricating) getting correct number of turns past finger tight without requiring excess amount of torque. Teflon itself doesnt help seal it.

I've worked in the Hydraulics industry my whole life ... YES ... theoretically NPT tapered threads are supposed to be self sealing.

But in the real world, most likely due to fittings made by different vendors as well as components made by another it just does not work that way !!

Without some sort of sealant, hydraulic systems would be leaking everywhere there are pipe threads which is just not acceptable and is why many in this industry (including myself) use O-Ring Boss equipped ports & fittings in place of NPT where ever possible today.

We've found that teflon tape is good for oil plumbing, but teflon paste does a better job of sealing WATER connections. And if you want to basically guarantee a leak-tight NPT water connection, Permatex 2 (as I used on the 3 nipples) works even better than teflon paste.

BACK TO THE SUBJECT PLEASE !!

Doug

 

[TheLion]

Did you try the above suggestions? I think the primary leaks are going to be the quick disconnect fittings, they are not exactly "precision" fitted. I question how well the o-ring is sealing the 6 ends of quick disconnect fittings assuming you've already taped the fitting nipples threads. The PCV elbo itself is also very loose, now that doesn't necessarily mean the o-ring isn't providing a good seal, it just may be tolerances in the molds for the parts, but then again it may be shifting the o-ring around enough to prevent a good seal.

These are all places to look.

 

[stangs-R-me]

Did you try the above suggestions? I think the primary leaks are going to be the quick disconnect fittings, they are not exactly "precision" fitted. I question how well the o-ring is sealing the 6 ends of quick disconnect fittings assuming you've already taped the fitting nipples threads. The PCV elbo itself is also very loose, now that doesn't necessarily mean the o-ring isn't providing a good seal, it just may be tolerances in the molds for the parts, but then again it may be shifting the o-ring around enough to prevent a good seal.

These are all places to look.

I'm not going to wrap a nipple that is supposed to be sealing on an o-ring with teflon tape, as it sounded like you were suggesting ... nor am I going to pick out an o-ring and try to find a slightly thicker one to seal better. If either of these would be corrective actions, the parts were made wrong ... this is why I want to get an 2nd set of these nipples so I can perform my leak test with AIR pressure in a bucket of WATER.

If these OEM style fittings that UPR uses in these kits were known to leak, all cars without catch cans would stink too.

I think when 'JUBEN" recommended wrapping the nipples with Teflon Tape, he meant the pipe thread end, not the tube stem that goes into the QD hose end.

Doug

 

[UPRjoe]

Sealing NPT threads.

Just a quick heads up you can use either a liquid teflon or tape n the NPT THREADS. We currently Loctite the fittings in to avoid leaks or them coming loose. If you want to remove the fittings you will need to put rubber hose over the ends to grip them without damaging them.

The smell can come from the seal seating in the PnP fittings or if any debris gets in them before installation and can let the PCV smell emit out. You can just put a drop of oil on all the PnP billet fittings then reinstall the PnP connectors and your seal will be good.

If for any reason the internal seal gets pinched it can cause a smell.

Thank you, Joe

 

[speedfrk]

Hylomar blue is some great stuff... I use it on flanges, manifolds, etc. Resists pretty much any chemical used on a car or aircraft.

 

[stangs-R-me]

Alright ... I think it's FIXED !!

I racked my brain trying to come up with a way to pressurize the can & nipples assembly with parts I already had and came up with a test.

Took the can off car and the short hose going to the intake tee, then removed the threaded nipple that is hose-clamped into the intake tee. Put a FM pipe coupling on the threaded nipple and a shop air male stem in the other side and hooked the Catch-Can short hose with the check going TO the CC in the CC top port. Turned compressor regulator down to 20 PSI and hooked it up, then submerged Catch Can in a bucket of water with fingers covering the ends of the two side QD stems. Was hoping to loop the long front hose between the side QD stems (testing the QDs & stems too), but the stem at the intake is larger so that was not going to work, had to use my fingers to cap them off instead (pretty easy at only 20 PSI).

Anyway, top & 1 side NPT port as well as the CC upper o-ring were all leak free, but the other side NPT port was bubbling like crazy !!

Disassembled, cleaned the PT2 off from before, chased the threads on the stem & CC body, then re-assembled again with fresh Permatex 2. Let cure a while, then re-submerged in my bucket and the leak was finally gone.

Now that it is Winter, CC is catching a lot more fluid (guessing condensation) than it did in the Summer, so I'm glad I finally figured it out !!

Doug

 

[UPRjoe]

Thank you for sharing, PM for a cool new product we are offering that really helps with the pressure during WOT and improves engine efficiency. Since you're so Pro-active I'll set you up to try it out.

Joe

 

[stangs-R-me]

Thank you for sharing, PM for a cool new product we are offering that really helps with the pressure during WOT and improves engine efficiency. Since you're so Pro-active I'll set you up to try it out.

Joe

Sent you a PM shortly after your post, but did not get a reply.

Also ... as it has been almost two weeks of driving, I thought I'd follow up to say that the strong smell is gone now that I fixed the leak.

:amen:

Doug

 

[Mustang Mikes Queen Creek]

Good info,I've got the vapor smell too,I'm living with it for the time being until I start tearing into this thing,great product either way Upr.

 

[lkeltner]

Edit: sorry, wrong forum!

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