Unofficial Off Topic Thread

[sk47]

A video posted on social media shows a dog repeatedly biting the horse, which tries to jump up and turn away.’

The force said the dog began attacking the horse "unprovoked"

Hello; I left out an important question. That being why would a dog attack a horse? As an extension of the question aside from the "bad" owners who do not "train" and/or "socialize" the dog properly, why do dogs decide to attack on their own?
The "modern" enlightened thinkers try to tell us it is all because we humans do things wrong. That implies the dogs have no input into situations on their own.

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[Caballus]

1-

Hello; I see you are not going to leave this alone. I figure the "punish" part in your mind is my suggestion some dogs ought to have a muzzle when out and about. Maybe you even include being on a stout leash.
Now I get the point. From dogs are wonderful and people (including bad owners) are the overall problem point of view. I am sure dogs do not like to wear a muzzle. From having dogs, myself I also know they like to run free when out and about.
From your point of view my attitude is out of date. I will plead guilty to that. A thing which ought to be obvious is pretty much all current dog owners do not train and socialize their dogs. At least the owners I know. I will even admit if I ever have another dog i will try some of the up to date approaches at training.

However, if I see a big dog when out and about, I will personally be some relaxed if it is on a stout lead held by a strong enough person. I will be even more relaxed if that big dog has a muzzle on its snout. That way I will not have to get ready to kill the dog and deal with the owner. This is the main point. The dog may not like to be on a lead. May even hate a muzzle but could save some lives including the dogs.

I refer to the episode posted when three boxers came at me. I intended to do my best to kill as many as I could. I did not have to try as the dogs responded to the owners call to stop and come back to him. That was a decent outcome. Not great because the prospect of fending off three decent sized dogs was going to be a problem. For a short time, I expected to be mauled.
I knew from experience with a German Shepard about putting the bicycle between me and the dog. But that was one dog.

But hey, I get it. From your point of view dogs are not the problem. It is the bad owners. Do you ever show up after a child has been mauled to explain that to the child's parents?

Thank you on the socialization point. I agree completely that it is not common back home (the States) for us to socialize and properly train. Culturally, we are more into back yard on a chain. Not a criticism. Just a fact and the main contributing factor to dog misbehavior.

As for the other points--
1. Not a matter of leaving something alone. This is an ongoing conversation. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of daily internet access.

2. "Dogs are wonderful..." I never said any such thing and I don't speak in extremes. There are bad dogs just as there are bad people. Some can be so bad that they need to be killed. I have no problem with that and sleep well. So, again, overstatement is not useful in a discussion.

3. I have no problem muzzling a dog and do it often. In fact, it is something that I believe needs to be taught as a puppy so the dog accepts it. In addition to protecting people, it protects the dog and, if properly trained, relaxes the dog. It can be trained to feel safer with a muzzle. If you recall, I stated that I agree with muzzling dogs that fail behavior tests. However, the muzzle is not an excuse for an untrained dog (or untrained owner), which many use it for. Nor should someone feel compelled to muzzle a dog because of someone else's irrational fear of "big dogs". Owners need to be held responsible. I provided examples that work. At the same time, I do agree fully that the owner needs to be in control of their dog at all times, whether on a leash or not.

4. The dogs that chased you were called back and responded to their recall. Untrained dogs chase things and people when they should not. That is why, for example, when you call a dog, you move away from it, rather than toward it. "Come here" as you move away or at least lean backwards. How often do you see people do that? Seldom. Goes back to people learning how to properly train their dogs.

5. Why would a dog attack a horse? Any number of reasons, but more often than not it's out of fear. As odd as that seems, especially from a prolonged attack, dogs most often attack when they feel threatened. Why would it be threatened by a horse when unprovoked? Because it has not been conditioned to know what a horse is, so it sees this big strange thing and it attacks to protect either itself or the owner. "But it has seen horses before." Was the horse close, etc. etc. The fact that it was a large dog is what made the press. Think of how often tiny dogs lose their minds and are barking like and lunging at larger dogs, people and other animals. If this had been a Yorkie no one would have thought twice, because it wouldn't have done any harm. However, the Yorkie would have had the same reason--fear and/or protection. The pitbull that can hangout in the chicken coop has been socialized. The dog that attacks horses has not--period. Take it a step further. The article says "American Bully" attacked horse. Goes back to the broad unspecific categorisation. "American Bulldog" is a distinctive American breed--pretty impressive one at that. And it's not in the "pitbull" category. The dog in the video was not an American Bulldog. We lump them all together out of ignorance and demonize out of ignorance as well (good ol social media--the interweb).

In sum,
1. People need to be required to train their dogs, especially large breeds

2. Dogs should not be banned based on breed. That is the lazy way out. However, it is reasonable to require certain breeds to undergo behavior tests--at the same time, their owners are being evaluated on their ability to handle the dog. If the handler-dog team fail, then restrictions should apply--muzzle required in public, etc. What breeds and what tests? Determine that locally.

3. Saying that a dog was bred to do something does not hold much water. Dogs have been domesticated for 23,000 years. Over that period of time, they've been bred and unbred for any number of purposes. Now, "good" breeding is so precise, we can breed dogs within a particular strain for specific purposes; e.g., GSDs that are good with families or GSDs that are good at emotional support or military service, etc. Same for other breeds. This is why when talking about dangerous breeds, we've gone from talking about pitbulls (an undefined non-breed) to german shepherds, huskies, Roman war dogs and Rots. It's not about the breed. It's about responsible owners.

 

[sk47]

1-


Thank you on the socialization point. I agree completely that it is not common back home (the States) for us to socialize and properly train. Culturally, we are more into back yard on a chain. Not a criticism. Just a fact and the main contributing factor to dog misbehavior.

As for the other points--
1. Not a matter of leaving something alone. This is an ongoing conversation. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of daily internet access.

2. "Dogs are wonderful..." I never said any such thing and I don't speak in extremes. There are bad dogs just as there are bad people. Some can be so bad that they need to be killed. I have no problem with that and sleep well. So, again, overstatement is not useful in a discussion.

3. I have no problem muzzling a dog and do it often. In fact, it is something that I believe needs to be taught as a puppy so the dog accepts it. In addition to protecting people, it protects the dog and, if properly trained, relaxes the dog. It can be trained to feel safer with a muzzle. If you recall, I stated that I agree with muzzling dogs that fail behavior tests. However, the muzzle is not an excuse for an untrained dog (or untrained owner), which many use it for. Nor should someone feel compelled to muzzle a dog because of someone else's irrational fear of "big dogs". Owners need to be held responsible. I provided examples that work. At the same time, I do agree fully that the owner needs to be in control of their dog at all times, whether on a leash or not.

4. The dogs that chased you were called back and responded to their recall. Untrained dogs chase things and people when they should not. That is why, for example, when you call a dog, you move away from it, rather than toward it. "Come here" as you move away or at least lean backwards. How often do you see people do that? Seldom. Goes back to people learning how to properly train their dogs.

5. Why would a dog attack a horse? Any number of reasons, but more often than not it's out of fear. As odd as that seems, especially from a prolonged attack, dogs most often attack when they feel threatened. Why would it be threatened by a horse when unprovoked? Because it has not been conditioned to know what a horse is, so it sees this big strange thing and it attacks to protect either itself or the owner. "But it has seen horses before." Was the horse close, etc. etc. The fact that it was a large dog is what made the press. Think of how often tiny dogs lose their minds and are barking like and lunging at larger dogs, people and other animals. If this had been a Yorkie no one would have thought twice, because it wouldn't have done any harm. However, the Yorkie would have had the same reason--fear and/or protection. The pitbull that can hangout in the chicken coop has been socialized. The dog that attacks horses has not--period. Take it a step further. The article says "American Bully" attacked horse. Goes back to the broad unspecific categorisation. "American Bulldog" is a distinctive American breed--pretty impressive one at that. And it's not in the "pitbull" category. The dog in the video was not an American Bulldog. We lump them all together out of ignorance and demonize out of ignorance as well (good ol social media--the interweb).

In sum,
1. People need to be required to train their dogs, especially large breeds

2. Dogs should not be banned based on breed. That is the lazy way out. However, it is reasonable to require certain breeds to undergo behavior tests--at the same time, their owners are being evaluated on their ability to handle the dog. If the handler-dog team fail, then restrictions should apply--muzzle required in public, etc. What breeds and what tests? Determine that locally.

3. Saying that a dog was bred to do something does not hold much water. Dogs have been domesticated for 23,000 years. Over that period of time, they've been bred and unbred for any number of purposes. Now, "good" breeding is so precise, we can breed dogs within a particular strain for specific purposes; e.g., GSDs that are good with families or GSDs that are good at emotional support or military service, etc. Same for other breeds. This is why when talking about dangerous breeds, we've gone from talking about pitbulls (an undefined non-breed) to german shepherds, huskies, Roman war dogs and Rots. It's not about the breed. It's about responsible owners.

Hello; You started out seeming to be reasonable then spoiled it toward the end of the post. OK so I am lazy (perhaps realistic) people are not going to be "trained " to train their dogs. I am OK with the banning of some dog types and zero tolerance for a bite. Two types of dogs are known to be responsible for around 70% of fatal attacks on people. Maybe they are not pure breed pits or rotts. I do not much care. The body size and features stand out enough to count. I also do not stop at those two dog types. I also consider shepards, huskies , chows and others to be potentially dangerous.
It would be nice if all dogs are trained, but being under control is good enough for me. A few years ago a house near me was turned into a rental. The college nearby has grown a lot. One year the house had seven people and at one point 16 dogs. Seven adult dogs and 9 German shepard puppies. Three of the dogs were left in a fenced in yard during the day.
One was a pittbull by its look. I watched it pull the trim off the side of the house. One day it got loose. I did not know the nature of the dog so got ready to deal if it came on my property. My neighbor came home and when his two girls got out of the car the dog charged toward them. The father stepped in between the dog and the girls. I was headed toward them with my weapon. The dog stopped and rolled over on its back apparently wanting a belly rub. Disaster did not happen but everyone had a big scare.
I do not want to kill someone's dog. I wait as long as i can in a situation.

 

[sk47]

Punish dogs for our own irrational fears. Interesting approach.

Mum whose son, 10, died in savage XL Bully dog attack had to identify him by his shoe - Mirror Online

Woman Found Dead in Her Backyard After Savage Dog Attack (msn.com)

Kennewick woman’s death after pit bull attack still under investigation. 2 dogs seized (yahoo.com)

Hero 'belted XL Bully' with a hammer to stop terrifying dog attack on two people | UK | News | Express.co.uk

Sheffield dog attack CCTV released as warning to owners - BBC News

Terrifying pit bull attack proof why Kennewick, others must reassess dangerous dogs | Opinion (yahoo.com)

Dogs captured, euthanized after fatal attack in Miller County (msn.com)

No justice for families one year after deadly dog attack in Lubbock park (msn.com)



Hello; Just a portion of reported dog attacks. Only went for those recently reported in last few days. Some have video. Some show pictures of the victims. Yeah, so very irrational.

 

[sk47]

Mum whose son, 10, died in savage XL Bully dog attack had to identify him by his shoe - Mirror Online

Woman Found Dead in Her Backyard After Savage Dog Attack (msn.com)

Kennewick woman’s death after pit bull attack still under investigation. 2 dogs seized (yahoo.com)

Hero 'belted XL Bully' with a hammer to stop terrifying dog attack on two people | UK | News | Express.co.uk

Sheffield dog attack CCTV released as warning to owners - BBC News

Terrifying pit bull attack proof why Kennewick, others must reassess dangerous dogs | Opinion (yahoo.com)

Dogs captured, euthanized after fatal attack in Miller County (msn.com)

No justice for families one year after deadly dog attack in Lubbock park (msn.com)



Hello; Just a portion of reported dog attacks. Only went for those recently reported in last few days. Some have video. Some show pictures of the victims. Yeah, so very irrational.

The XL Bully Locked Onto Beau Beau's Leg and That Was it (msn.com)

Toddler Mauled to Death by Family's New Pit Bull While Retrieving a Ball (msn.com)

 

[HoosierDaddy]

From Meme thread

 

[sk47]

From Meme thread

Hello; Funny and disturbing at the same time. Something like the Far Side cartoons.

 

[RagmopInKona]

Dogs are great till they turn on you, decades ago ours did just this. It was sick, later they found a tumor in it's brain ,but it almost killed a 1 y.o. and left great grandma with a cut up leg from trying to protect the baby.
Mans best friend till it ain't.

 

[sk47]

Mans best friend till it ain't.

Hello; Some many thousands of years ago people and some early canine started working out a deal. I do not know for sure how the mutually beneficial deal was done. Plenty of movies, books and other speculation about it may have happened. But however it started one general part of the deal has been the dogs do not bite humans if they want to stay around. Both fortunately and unfortunately there are some rather specific cases when dog attacks on humans are acceptable.

The obvious case is military or law enforcement use of dogs. The value of these dogs seems clear. What happens after the dog ends its service has been the subject of a few movies in the last few years. Not all realistic. I do not see it as fair to put down a dog after it has done in service what it was trained to do. However these dogs need to be retired with people who know how to handle them, not to the general public.

Another less clear case is when a family dog defends a child. My first thought is the dog did its job. I would not want to put down such a dog.

I was raised in a some distant past. Also likely in an area with a harder life. If your dog was a bitter outside of defending a family member it had to be put down. If a dog got hit by a car and was hurt bad we did not have the money to go to a vet so we put it down. The old story told to children that the family dog went to live on a farm. I can still recall wanting to go to that farm but never getting a good notion of just where the farm is.

Seems now days some are trying to change the terms of the deal. Dogs that bite or attack people outside of acceptable reasons do not get put down. There are lawyers who swoop in after a fatal mauling with the intent to save the offending dogs. I have heard of the dog of a prominent person that has apparently bitten 11 or more people who have to be around that person for their work. The dog continues apparently without a muzzle or other safety restrictions.

Toddler mauled by 'XL bully dog' outside Hilton hotel in London (msn.com)

 

[sk47]

I have heard of the dog of a prominent person that has apparently bitten 11 or more people who have to be around that person for their work.

Hello; Guess the tally is up to 12 attacks today. Wonder what it is like having to go to work where a biting dog can get at you?

 

[sk47]

Climate scientist fears for job after refusing ‘immoral’ air travel request (msn.com)

Hello; Finally one who walks the walk.

 

[sk47]

The XL Bully Locked Onto Beau Beau's Leg and That Was it (msn.com)

Toddler Mauled to Death by Family's New Pit Bull While Retrieving a Ball (msn.com)

Hello; Of no importance but my first wife had a toy poodle named Beau.
XL Bully which killed dad 'savaged two other dogs' before fatal attack (msn.com)

 

[sk47]

Distraught mum pictured cradling toddler after XL Bully dog mauled him (msn.com)

Hello; This is one among many such stories of late. A difference perhaps being the image. Guess i am a bit grateful the image of the mauled child is not more graphic. The image of the dog leaves little doubt about what type it is.

I wonder what sort of excuses (rationalizations) might be posted as to why it is not really the dogs fault. I have been reading some of the expert dog trainers articles so as to see if there is substance to the "modern" notions about as opposed to my "old school" notions.
Largely these modern ideas reminded me of the sorts of "expert" advice handed down to me when i was a public school teacher as the schools and classrooms devolved into a sort of general chaos.

 

[sk47]

'Vaccine' Against Conspiracy Theories Could Be Closer Than You Think (msn.com)

Hello; Can someone break this down ?

 

[FreePenguin]

random with nowhere to put it- ive successfully paid off 68k off my house in the last 15 months or so. I only owe 66k now left, and planning to have that paid off in next 8 months!

feels pretty good. it'll be paid off at about 7.5 years out of 30 year loan. granted my interest rate isn't that high, its just tax free gains so just doing it. once im done with that, then I will worry about investing.

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