Unofficial Off Topic Thread

[Caballus]

Why were American bull terriers bred?
Bull and terrier crosses were originally bred to function as fighting dogs for bull- and bear-baiting, and other popular blood sports during the Victorian era. The sport of bull baiting required a dog with attributes such as tenacity and courage, a wide frame with heavy bone, and a muscular, protruding jaw.

More easily found info

I don't disagree. This is true of the terrier strain. Other strains (mastiff, in particular) are not in that category. Additionally, it is not thousands of years (Victorian era is 1800s-early 1900s). Bullbaiting goes back to 1700s. Finally, although the sad tradition of dog fighting still continues, mostly in the U.S. south, dogs are not bred for that anymore in general. So, they have been "unbred" longer than they were bred for the purpose. The stereotypes persist. The science and facts do not support them.

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[sk47]

Very easy to source this out.

Pit bulls were originally bred for bull baiting and dog fighting, and because of this heritage, they often show a tendency to attack other animals with a remarkable ferocity that contributes to public stigma against the breed.

Hello; point made. Over who knows how many centuries dogs have been selectively bred. We associate particular traits/talents with specific breeds. Bloodhounds, pointers, retrievers, and so many others are known for their skills or traits. Yet when it comes to the selection used with fighting dogs we are to dismiss the same systemic selective breeding that is applauded in other breeds.

I get it. Folks who like the dogs do not like the labels. I have not tried to raise a Pitbull nor a German Shepard. I have had issues with both types of dog. I went thru a long series of back and forth over ten years ago in a forum about the nature of dogs.

My Husky was kept out in the countryside away from other dogs and small animals for almost a year. I moved to a new place with closer neighbors. A place with a fenced in yard. One of the neighbors had free running chickens. Although not a year old the husky killed the first chicken that got into the yard. I tried to stop this. I soaked the dead chicken with hot sauce and tied it around the dogs neck. He licked the sauce off making faces to get at the chicken. The problem solved itself after a while. The neighbor started keeping his chickens close to home. Either that or my dog killed them all. He did for several small animals that got into the yard.

 

[Caballus]

I soaked the dead chicken with hot sauce and tied it around the dogs neck. He licked the sauce off making faces to get at the chicken.

Wow, enough said.

 

[sk47]

I don't disagree. This is true of the terrier strain. Other strains (mastiff, in particular) are not in that category. Additionally, it is not thousands of years (Victorian era is 1800s-early 1900s). Bullbaiting goes back to 1700s. Finally, although the sad tradition of dog fighting still continues, mostly in the U.S. south, dogs are not bred for that anymore in general. So, they have been "unbred" longer than they were bred for the purpose. The stereotypes persist. The science and facts do not support them.

Hello; Puzzle me this then. Say bloodhounds are not used to track for a long time, but are kept a pure breed. Do they lose the keen nose that became a characteristic of the breed?
Now if the pitbulls are kept as pure breed dogs do they not keep the gene combination that make them a pure breed. I can buy the argument if pure breeddogs are allowed to mate outside the breed.

Ther was a silver fox program in Russia some many years back. The idea was to select for less aggressive silver fox to be used in fur trade. Calmer individuals were selected and mated together. Thing turned out that they made an essentially domesticated line of foxes, but the more domesticated line lost the distinctive sllver fox fur of the wild type.

 

[sk47]

Wow, enough said.

Hello; This was back inthe 1970's before easy access to information. I tried to make a chicken repulsive to the dog. Did not work.
Go ahead and tell us how to stop a dog from killing chickens.

 

[Caballus]

Hello; Puzzle me this then. Say bloodhounds are not used to track for a long time, but are kept a pure breed. Do they lose the keen nose that became a characteristic of the breed?
Now if the pitbulls are kept as pure breed dogs do they not keep the gene combination that make them a pure breed. I can buy the argument if pure breeddogs are allowed to mate outside the breed.

Ther was a silver fox program in Russia some many years back. The idea was to select for less aggressive silver fox to be used in fur trade. Calmer individuals were selected and mated together. Thing turned out that they made an essentially domesticated line of foxes, but the more domesticated line lost the distinctive sllver fox fur of the wild type.

Per the links you provided, pitbulls are by definition a cross-breed. So, what is a purebred pitbull would be the first question. Second, what is called pitbulls were bred for hunting and farm work when they came to the U.S. So, how is that accounted for? Additionally, a hunting dog may have a certain drive, but it still needs to be trained to use that drive. You train hunting dogs to hunt. Finally, the media focuses on dogs that attack, discounts the majority of dogs that do not attack and still no discussion has been had about the type of people who own the bad actors.

 

[Caballus]

Hello; This was back inthe 1970's before easy access to information. I tried to make a chicken repulsive to the dog. Did not work.
Go ahead and tell us how to stop a dog from killing chickens.

That is the point. We still refer to old techniques and data to train dogs and rationalize their behavior. To stop a dog from killing chickens you socialize it. If you want to talk off the open internet, I can provide tips, personal experience and examples. Here's a search that has nothing to do with me personally.

 

[K4fxd]

Every time a pit bull kills a kid the reports are about how sweet the dog was. I have neighbors with pits and my Son has 2 pits. Yes they are real friendly sweet dogs. UNTIL they are not.

My neighbors dog has got out a time or two, I told him if the dog shows any aggressiveness toward me or mine I will not hesitate to shoot it. If it is on my property or any place I have a legal right to be.

They are time bombs. Most will never go off but many do.

 

[Caballus]

Every time a pit bull kills a kid the reports are about how sweet the dog was. I have neighbors with pits and my Son has 2 pits. Yes they are real friendly sweet dogs. UNTIL they are not.

My neighbors dog has got out a time or two, I told him if the dog shows any aggressiveness toward me or mine I will not hesitate to shoot it. If it is on my property or any place I have a legal right to be.

They are time bombs. Most will never go off but many do.

Where, geographically do the majority of these incidents happen? Who, as a majority, owns these animals and under what conditions do they occur? To each his own. Science and facts be damned.

 

[K4fxd]

Where did dogfighting originate?

The genesis of dogfighting as a sport can be traced to a clash of ancient civilizations. When the Romans invaded Britain in 43 A.D., both sides brought fighting dogs to the battlefield for the seven years of warfare that followed.Jul 19, 2007

 

[Caballus]

Where did dogfighting originate?

The genesis of dogfighting as a sport can be traced to a clash of ancient civilizations. When the Romans invaded Britain in 43 A.D., both sides brought fighting dogs to the battlefield for the seven years of warfare that followed.Jul 19, 2007

Roman war dogs trace back best to Cane Corso. Closest breed in contemporary times is the mastiff. Mastiffs are not part of the pitbull strain, which links to terriers. So, what's your point?

And that picture has no pitbull in it.

 

[sk47]

Per the links you provided, pitbulls are by definition a cross-breed. So, what is a purebred pitbull would be the first question. Second, what is called pitbulls were bred for hunting and farm work when they came to the U.S. So, how is that accounted for? Additionally, a hunting dog may have a certain drive, but it still needs to be trained to use that drive. You train hunting dogs to hunt. Finally, the media focuses on dogs that attack, discounts the majority of dogs that do not attack and still no discussion has been had about the type of people who own the bad actors.

That is the point. We still refer to old techniques and data to train dogs and rationalize their behavior. To stop a dog from killing chickens you socialize it. If you want to talk off the open internet, I can provide tips, personal experience and examples. Here's a search that has nothing to do with me personally.

Roman war dogs trace back best to Cane Corso. Closest breed in contemporary times is the mastiff. Mastiffs are not part of the pitbull strain, which links to terriers. So, what's your point?

And that picture has no pitbull in it.

Hello; Clear that you have the talking points down pat. From the well used gambit of what is a pitbull type dog. That somehow the reports of fatal attacks are not accurate because the dog may not be a true pitbull to this new one to me that "pitbulls are by definition a cross-breed. So, what is a purebred pitbull would be the first question" I will settle for any dog which has the physical characteristics of a pitbull type. They are pretty distinctive in the way they look.

I do not buy the notion that a dog born with specific traits cannot display those traits unless trained. I did not "train" my husky to kill chickens nor any other animal. At the time I was married and the wife stayed at home. I do not know if she "trained" the dog to kill small animals.
Pretty sure a bloodhound can pick up scents without being trained. I concede a person will have to somehow let the dog know if a particular scent is to be followed.

The very common "it is the owner" is something i have heard often. I did have a link to a story about a man who raised two pit types from pups. He did not show up for work and could not be reached. He was found in his home after having been killed by his own dogs. My next door neighbor, before he died, had a Pitt also raised from a pup. One day it turned on one of his family. Now I saw for years how he and his family treated their other dogs. EDIT- no reason to think the pitt was somehow badly treated. They were good to the other dogs.

I will not dispute the "socialize" a dog to not kill chickens. Never tried it. At the time I did not have any chickens. After a while my neighbor did not have any either. But I do not plan to have another dog so likely will not have need.

This last bit is the best.
"Roman war dogs trace back best to Cane Corso. Closest breed in contemporary times is the mastiff. Mastiffs are not part of the pitbull strain, which links to terriers. So, what's your point?"
Almost reads like pitbull types do not exist.

How about we consider the type of dog most of us think of as pittbull types to be that. Pure bred or no I can pick one out. If someone has one they need to figure a lot of folks will see it the same way and not let one run loose. Keep it on a stout lead. Better yet have a muzzle on it. That way I will not be wary. Better I do not feel the need to act first. Same for a german shepard, a rottweiler and other big dogs.

 

[sk47]

Trainer shares the one thing you must do if you want a happy, well-behaved dog (msn.com)

Hello; Makes sense to me.

 

[K4fxd]

The answer to the question, what is my point. Point is dogs have been used for sport fighting longer than the Victorian era.

 

[sk47]

New study reveals the shocking factor that’s caused a dramatic shift in Earth’s tilt: ‘I’m concerned and surprised’ (msn.com)

“Between 1993 and 2010, the tilt of the Earth shifted by 31.5 inches, corresponding with people’s worldwide withdrawals of underground water. “

“The study said this amount of water equates to a global sea-level rise of about a quarter-inch.”

“It has also likely caused the world to wobble more. The journal Science’s news section likens the motion to a spinning top or basketball on a finger having weight redistributed. This metaphorical basketball also has water-balloon-like properties of “sloshing” slightly”

“I’m very glad to find the unexplained cause,” he added. “On the other hand, as a resident of Earth and a father, I’m concerned and surprised to see that pumping groundwater is another source of sea-level rise.””

Hello; First thing is to take the information with a grain or two of salt. The hope is those doing the study have done the necessary work to actually link groundwater depletion with the earths increased tilt. If not the two things may not be related in terms of causation.

I do not necessarily dispute the measurement of tilt as such a fine amount ought to be possible. Tilt of the axis gives the earth seasons. I think it is still at 23.5 degrees. That gives us distinct regions on the globe. The distance from the equator to the end of either of the tropic zones is a result of the 23.5 degree tilt. Same for the Arctic and Antarctic circles. 31.5 inches is not much. Guess it ought to make a difference.

That groundwater pumped to the surface can cause sea-level rise makes sense. I used the pumping out of aquifers as a cautionary tale in science classes since the early 1970’s to 2004. Not because of sea-level rise. More because that extra water allowed for a much greater amount of food production than can be supported without the use of that water. Idea being we have been able to have a lot more food, so the human population was able to increase beyond the carrying capacity of the land without the water. The problem eventually to be that when the aquifers are exhausted food production will dramatically decline.

Using ground water also causes reduces useful farmland over time. In some places the land will not grow crops anymore because of the mineral salts in that ground water. After the water evaporates/runs off the minerals accumulate on the surface. Leaves big circular patches of unproductive land. Circular because of use of center pivot irrigation. Saw some of that in Texas back in 1987.

tilt of earth axis degrees - Search (bing.com)

The tilt of the Earth's axis is the angle between the axis and the plane of its orbit around the sun. The tilt of the axis varies between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees1234in a cycle that averages about 40,000 years13. This variation is caused by the gravitational force from the sun, the moon, and other planets4. The current tilt of the axis is about 23.5 degrees153.

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