Tuning gurus please.

[Burkey]

Does that mean you ran his tuned car and a different completely stock car on the same dyno on the same day and the power and torque curves were within a couple horsepower and he was disappointed?

Or does that mean he street raced a stock car from a 3rd gear roll and was upset that he didn't pull away? And then he drove your car which is basically running race fuel (E85 is effectively race fuel and allows a lot more spark timing) and was happy with it and thinks it's because of the tuner?

What's the real story here?

We ran his modified and tuned car against a completely stock car, on the road, 3rd gear pull. Both cars filled up at the same place, travelled the same distance to get there etc. eg. Same temps, same, same, same,same....
We didn't bother with a dyno because I've never raced on a dyno and don't care for the numbers.
He then drove a lund tuned car with PMAS only, which was quicker than his, followed by mine, at which point he realised the potential of his mods with the right tuner and fuel.
My point being, how bad is a tune if a car with headers can't make any gain on a stocky? I can show you a roll race, both cars same fuel, same tuner, same intake, headers being the only difference and it DOES make a several car length difference...

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[arghx7]

You don't know what's going on without a dyno and a datalog.

A roll race tells you nothing actionable. It doesn't tell you if there was a problem with a tune, or a mechanical problem, nothing. Maybe if both cars had datalogit from the PCM you could make a judgment based on knock snensor octane adjust ratio, air fuel ratio, VCT settings, etc.

A series of dyno pulls isn't a race. It is a measurement that is correlated with data from the PCM.

Without tools and measurements comparing tuners is like taking a poll about who your favorite magician is. Without data analysis tuning is basically paying someone to peform magic.