Tuning Decisions

[Livernois Motorsports]

Expanding on foghat's question... I like to prep most of my own heads. If I pull the head, port/blend it, do a valve job, what kind of support can you provide in instances like these? Would a tune have to be extrapolated from flow numbers?

Things like this get much trickier to adjust for because on a DI engine there is a lot of critical data needed and in house testing around a port. Now, on the flip side, if we do a ported head we will support it, but supporting a head with some unknowns might be tough. The EB is temperamental when it comes to how the flow gets into the cylinder.

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[dirty-max]

The only thing I want is if I were to opt for the livernois tuning that it performs just as advertised even if I'm in texas lol

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I really not a cobb fanboy, I swear...

But, in fairness, you were asking about a part they made for a non-ford engine in an ecoboost thread. And if I remember correctly, you started the whole 'conversation' accusing them of basically being idiots for building the part the way they did. Of course I could be remembering wrong about the actual contents of the discussion, but I know the tone wasn't one that would make me want to engage with you.

I've said it before, the accessport is a great piece of hardware. Even if you don't see the value in some of its features (map switching, no lift shift, etc) , the gauges, real time parameter monitoring, code reading and clearing, make it a compelling choice.

Livernois you should purchase the software and start selling ecoboost tunes for access port. I mean, reality is, people are going to be buying access ports (a lot of them, if other platforms are any indication) and are going to want a custom tune. Apply your knowledge and take a piece of the market that doesn't buy your tuner.

Truthfully, we have our own software that we do in house because we got burned time and time again using 3rd party software. There is just too many gaps in the offerings, or incorrect tables or descriptions to deal with when using something that we aren't in control with. By doing so, we see an unbelievable about errors in other software, but it just makes us remember why we started doing our own thing.

And @Livernois, are you doing anything in the way of s550 GT tunes?

We do the 5.0 as well, there not 60+hp left in them, but we definitely support them as well

 

[COBB Tuning]

We have over 4000 miles on a tuned Mustang EcoBoost already: road trips, daily driving, freeway on ramp rips, and all kinds of dyno pulls.

If you like data and to be able to see what your tune is doing, the Accessport can provide that data: https://cobb.box.com/mustanglogs

Ian
(sorry in advance for getting 2 letters in any acronyms backwards)

 

[foghat]

Truthfully, we have our own software that we do in house because we got burned time and time again using 3rd party software. There is just too many gaps in the offerings, or incorrect tables or descriptions to deal with when using something that we aren't in control with. By doing so, we see an unbelievable about errors in other software, but it just makes us remember why we started doing our own thing.

I hear what you are saying, but I wouldn't brush aside the idea so quickly. In the 3 different car forums I've frequented, I've never heard anyone complain about the cobb software - including the pro tuner I know who specializes in evox and sti. I get the ecoboost is different.

It doesn't look like they have the access tuner race software yet for the mustang ecoboost. But at a cost of $150 (for the personal version which cannot lock tunes) plus cost of AP, might be worth the investment to take a look and see what you think.

This (custom AP tunes) is a market PTF capitalized on in the n54/n55 world. There will be a similar market here, you might as well take a piece of it....

We do the 5.0 as well, there not 60+hp left in them, but we definitely support them as well

I know you do 5.0s. but have not seen anything specific yet to the 2015 5.0. Seems like there is more on the table this year than in previous years.

Have you guys done anything yet specific to the new 5.0? If not, are you planning? Would love to see thread from you guys in the 5.0 sub forum.

 

[Anthony]

If my car ever gets delivered, I'm taking it directly to Livernois to get tuned and a hot air jlt intake

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

We have over 4000 miles on a tuned Mustang EcoBoost already: road trips, daily driving, freeway on ramp rips, and all kinds of dyno pulls.

Ian

Ian, people want ETs. Nothing else matters.

 

[COBB Tuning]

Just to throw this out there I was test driving an ecoboost the other day and ford had implemented an A/F guage into the dash that I could cycle through..idk where it gets its info from same with the boost guage..i would think the ecoboost has some sort of MAP sensor that would accurately tell what boost pressures you are seeing

That's correct, the dash cluster is reading directly from the ECU via taking a lambda reading from the oxygen sensor and applying the E10 conversion for AFR output to your screen. Most of the measurements on the ECU are in metric or SI units. The Accessport offers the ability to view these in metric or imperial, along with other available conversion as the user prefers.

The boost pressure reading on your dash is also taken directly from the ECU where it stores boost pressure (also known as gauge pressure). The native unit for pressure in the EcoBoost ECU is inHg, so the instrument cluster is also converting this into psiG for positive pressure, and inHg for vacuum.

We do no different on the Accessport, simply taking the actual data from the ECU as it is calculated and displaying it via live monitoring on the screen. I find knowing exactly what my car is doing to be an extremely comforting feature while driving.

Cheers,
-Braden @ COBB

 

[dragonacc]

Ian, people want ETs. Nothing else matters.

Um, not everyone wants ETs. I don't drag race personally, I mean, bragging rights are cool and all but too much is at play - traction, driver skill, weather... They've already said there will be track times coming, and I'm sure someone that buys it will also go to the track at some point.

Bottom line - Livernois, WMS, Cobb, Lund, Bama, etc. will probably all produce similiar power numbers. So you are really shopping features. If you like the features of the SCT X4 buy it, if you like the Accessport buy it, if features aren't important to you go with Livernois.

 

[EcoSnake]

Are they direct injected? It's much easier to do E85 with PFI, but with DI it's another story.

They use both, on both fi and na setups. And it worked good. I have the 5.0 motor f150 so I knew where it came from ;-). I also have a sn95 gt 5.0. Didn't need three 5.0 vehicles is why I got the ecoboost.

 

[dirty-max]

This whole thread just confuses me I honestly have no clue which tuner I should buy they all seem to have pros and cons and i honestly don't know which one I would even see the best gains/perf/satisfaction from..what do you guys think? I want a good time at the track but I also want to daily drive this thing alot the livernois seems good if it really is consistent regardless of data logging but I also like the monitoring from cobb..any thoughts?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

That's correct, the dash cluster is reading directly from the ECU via taking a lambda reading from the oxygen sensor and applying the E10 conversion for AFR output to your screen. Most of the measurements on the ECU are in metric or SI units. The Accessport offers the ability to view these in metric or imperial, along with other available conversion as the user prefers.

The boost pressure reading on your dash is also taken directly from the ECU where it stores boost pressure (also known as gauge pressure). The native unit for pressure in the EcoBoost ECU is inHg, so the instrument cluster is also converting this into psiG for positive pressure, and inHg for vacuum.

We do no different on the Accessport, simply taking the actual data from the ECU as it is calculated and displaying it via live monitoring on the screen. I find knowing exactly what my car is doing to be an extremely comforting feature while driving.

Cheers,
-Braden @ COBB

But what if it's not E10, while much of the country uses E10, it's not like it has exactly 10% every time. What about those areas that are e15? or the rare stations that are pure gasoline? Applying a conversion to data, or using an offset makes it so it's not data that can be used for calibration, yet that's what people log, so what's the point?

On Boost, you still have absolute and gauge pressure for inHg, so depending on which DMR you using will give you different results. And again, why convert it? Taking things out of their native language is always going to create issues. If the ECM was engineered to use a certain unit, converting it is counterintuitive. You're forcing people to think in a different way than the ECM thinks. You cannot use a converted value to properly make adjustments, so datalogging converted values does no good to anybody and can result in damage. You cant see it makes 20# of boost and go to a table and say make 21# instead. So now you are converting back and forth and back and forth. See where the problems can arise? Giving people purposely modified information to watch is not beneficial as is not actual data.

 

[EcoSnake]

This whole thread just confuses me I honestly have no clue which tuner I should buy they all seem to have pros and cons and i honestly don't know which one I would even see the best gains/perf/satisfaction from..what do you guys think? I want a good time at the track but I also want to daily drive this thing alot the livernois seems good if it really is consistent regardless of data logging but I also like the monitoring from cobb..any thoughts?

I ordered the accessport because it worked flawlessly on my 08 STi. And for the same reasons I would pick windows / ios / android over linux.

 

[RamJam]

I don't think I can handle any more analogies, "conversational French"? "Steakhouse"? Next I'm going to hear Anselms Ontological Argument used to explain how there can be no greater tuner.

*sigh*

 

[EcoSwag1990]

I ordered the accessport because it worked flawlessly on my 08 STi. And for the same reasons I would pick windows / ios / android over linux.

I want to go with COBB because I like some of the extra features like launch control (for street lights ). But will I need to get a protune just to account for the ford racing catback I'm having installed?

If so I'd rather not bother with then having to find someone else to do a custom tune for me. Unless someone can suggest a specific dealer who sells the accessport and does new tunes for free thereafter

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