TTV6+AWD or FI-V8

[Grimace427]

Where would be a situation where AWD is not better then RWD? Same car, same motor, same weight. (AWD would probably add some weight given that)

Speed, corning, etc.

The GTR is a great example of how AWD performance can definitely make up for the weight difference. On road course, drag strip, and street.

Not trying to start a war. Just curious on where the RWD would be better then AWD. (sincerely, not joking or trolling)

At a drag strip where the RWD car has proper drag tires. If it has enough grip to lift the front tires then AWD would merely be extra weight.

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[mustang_guy]

If awd is so great why isnt f1 using it? If awd is so great why isnt Ferrari? When suspension is set up properly for the intended use awd is not superior in any motorsport. It has more component's to break and is much heavier. It also can also make a vehicle more front end heavy pending on the design. The only time you will see awd smashing rwd cars in drag racing is when its not properly set up or is down ridiculous amounts of power in comparison

 

[Viperbluecobra]

At a drag strip where the RWD car has proper drag tires. If it has enough grip to lift the front tires then AWD would merely be extra weight.

For cars that come from the factory without drag tires. AWD can have drag tires as well.

If awd is so great why isnt f1 using it? If awd is so great why isnt Ferrari? When suspension is set up properly for the intended use awd is not superior in any motorsport. It has more component's to break and is much heavier. It also can also make a vehicle more front end heavy pending on the design. The only time you will see awd smashing rwd cars in drag racing is when its not properly set up or is down ridiculous amounts of power in comparison

F1 - it's illegal.
Ferrari doesn't yet, but Lamborgini, Bugatti, porsche, audi, GTR, do. Because ferrari doesn't do it, doesn't make it better.

Remember we are talking about a car that comes from the factory, street legal, etc.

AWD cars smashing rwd cars all day is more like it. Real street cars with real hp. Anything else is a race car, half back car, etc.

Only thing I can come up with is that RWD set up is best economically from the factory for now. There isn't AWD performance car in the price range of mustangs,camaro's etc, that really does decent performance at the 1/4 mile from the factory.

Price excluded, I can't find a reason to not go AWD. All components strong etc, it should our perform in 1/4 mile, etc. Hate to say it again but look at the power to weight of cars that have AWD and how they performance to similar power rated cars in 1/4 mile, road course, etc.

 

[mustang_guy]

For cars that come from the factory without drag tires. AWD can have drag tires as well.



F1 - it's illegal.
Ferrari doesn't yet, but Lamborgini, Bugatti, porsche, audi, GTR, do. Because ferrari doesn't do it, doesn't make it better.

Remember we are talking about a car that comes from the factory, street legal, etc.

AWD cars smashing rwd cars all day is more like it. Real street cars with real hp. Anything else is a race car, half back car, etc.

Only thing I can come up with is that RWD set up is best economically from the factory for now. There isn't AWD performance car in the price range of mustangs,camaro's etc, that really does decent performance at the 1/4 mile from the factory.

Price excluded, I can't find a reason to not go AWD. All components strong etc, it should our perform in 1/4 mile, etc. Hate to say it again but look at the power to weight of cars that have AWD and how they performance to similar power rated cars in 1/4 mile, road course, etc.

Im aware of the rules for f1. My point being is its not better. Ferrari doesnt use it because its not required to be fast. The fastest porsches dont use it either.

Im not sure what planet your on but awd most definitely doesnt smash everything all day long. What you fail to realize is most people drag race like utter garbage. So you are going to see awd cars with sub par drivers beating rwd cars with sub par drivers. Awd is the great equalizer in making crappy drivers look great. If awd is so great why does it matter if its not stock awd vs not sock rwd. Its supposed to be so great. I like how you define it as "street car". Sounds like another excuse on why proper set up cars drag awd cars ass down the strip. :lol: i have been drag racing 3 decades, half of them in nhra and nmra and rwd does not lose when set up. You can spin this argument however you want. Its not superior.

Your comparison of how they compare is flawed. All things equal in both cars being properly set up for the same motorsport, rwd is superior.

My 9 second dd beater sti has gotten its ass handed to it by a properly set up foxbody and fbody. You dont make excuses, you run what you bring. A previous 8 second supra i built handed an evo its ass off the line on the street. Did i mention the evo had launch control and anti lag? Intended set up is key and lack of proper set up loses you races. When you race for money youll understand that. Most people neglect to properly set up their rwd suspension because they dont care, dont know or dont know how to set it up.

At the end of the day awd will have traction issues on the street same as any other car. It is not some drivetrain touched by the hand of god. If you think itll save a stock 700-800hp crank car on the street you have another thing coming. My sti has tons of traction issues even on 265s mpss. I have to run hoosiers on the street if i want actual traction. I love awd but i love rwd a lot more.

 

[Viperbluecobra]

Im aware of the rules for f1. My point being is its not better. Ferrari doesnt use it because its not required to be fast. The fastest porsches dont use it either.

Im not sure what planet your on but awd most definitely doesnt smash everything all day long. What you fail to realize is most people drag race like utter garbage. So you are going to see awd cars with sub par drivers beating rwd cars with sub par drivers. Awd is the great equalizer in making crappy drivers look great. If awd is so great why does it matter if its not stock awd vs not sock rwd. Its supposed to be so great. I like how you define it as "street car". Sounds like another excuse on why proper set up cars drag awd cars ass down the strip. :lol: i have been drag racing 3 decades, half of them in nhra and nmra and rwd does not lose when set up. You can spin this argument however you want. Its not superior.

Your comparison of how they compare is flawed. All things equal in both cars being properly set up for the same motorsport, rwd is superior.

My 9 second dd beater sti has gotten its ass handed to it by a properly set up foxbody and fbody. You dont make excuses, you run what you bring. A previous 8 second supra i built handed an evo its ass off the line on the street. Did i mention the evo had launch control and anti lag? Intended set up is key and lack of proper set up loses you races. When you race for money youll understand that. Most people neglect to properly set up their rwd suspension because they dont care, dont know or dont know how to set it up.

At the end of the day awd will have traction issues on the street same as any other car. It is not some drivetrain touched by the hand of god. If you think itll save a stock 700-800hp crank car on the street you have another thing coming. My sti has tons of traction issues even on 265s mpss. I have to run hoosiers on the street if i want actual traction. I love awd but i love rwd a lot more.

We are talking from the factory. Your bringing in drag cars and modified cars to the equation.

I'm not even going to try to respond to all your comments because most of them don't make sense. Ferrari and all makes make fast cars, awd, rwd, etc. There is a combination of materials, price, components, engine position, it's not just AWD or RWD that makes it faster than the other at that realm. You pay for a ferrari for the name, there are cars that perform par with a ferrari for half the price.

Back to my topic. RWD vs AWD - perfect example relevant to the GT500, hellcat vs gtr. Roughly same quarter mile, the GTR does it with 20% less hp, and they are about the same weight. This is the comparison I'd like the GT500 to be up against. Factory performance not modified race cars that your talking about.

RWD required tires and a better driver. Same car hp, same factory dot tires, same driver, the AWD will out perform consistently. That's my point. Your adding modifications and years of development for RWD cars be your deciding factor that it's better. It may be better for all out drag racing currently, but that's all out drag cars. We are talking street factory cars.

I can respect your experience at the track. Properly set up cars for drag racing is completely different then cars that come from the factory. Usually mustangs can out perform most when it comes down to performance per buck and 1/4 mile times. Which is why I have one! :ford:

Edit.. Also. What are the fastest 1/4 mile factory cars currently on the market? AWD or RWD? what's the percentage and numbers?

 

[Hack]

When suspension is set up properly for the intended use awd is not superior in any motorsport.

Lets discuss rally racing. It's a good metaphor for a big HP car on factory tires and on the street (the available traction is low when compared to the available HP).

After that can we talk about the Audi quattro R18 Le Mans winner?

 

[LHousePhoto]

Ferrari FF is all wheel drive.

 

[Newedge713]

Ferrari FF is all wheel drive.

But do you want to pay that much for a AWD GT500 if ford was going to AWD they should have done on the 2017 FORD GT that makes a lot more sense

 

[FordBlueHeart]

I guess all of you proponents of awd keep your car stock after you buy it? Then when someone pulls up next to you and wants to run you ask them if they're stock? The only time your argument sticks is when the handicap favors your opinion. Your argument is that you're "racing" factory stock cars, yet who actually does that? Internet bench racers and magazine writers.
When an awd car gets beat does the driver pull out his smartphone and show the winner the factory stock shootout proving he's faster and the winner cheated?:first: I guess according to your reasoning once your tires need replacing, the only honorable replacement are the stock brand and size the car left with from the factory. Don't change your air filter, up the octane in your fuel, switch to race synthetic oil! You won't be stock anymore. Yeah, obviously I'm getting bogged down in the minutiae, but that's my point. In order to make your argument stick, you have to do the same. I guess if you're only concerned with being the magazine winner then you got it. Awd is better.:hail:
There are lots of examples through the years where manufacturers have intentionally left things off from a car in order to hit a price point or a qualification for a certain class or simply because they knew that if someone was truly going to use the car for it's intended purposes, it would be changed.
:cheers::cheers:

 

[Viperbluecobra]

I guess all of you proponents of awd keep your car stock after you buy it? Then when someone pulls up next to you and wants to run you ask them if they're stock? The only time your argument sticks is when the handicap favors your opinion. Your argument is that you're "racing" factory stock cars, yet who actually does that? Internet bench racers and magazine writers.
When an awd car gets beat does the driver pull out his smartphone and show the winner the factory stock shootout proving he's faster and the winner cheated?:first: I guess according to your reasoning once your tires need replacing, the only honorable replacement are the stock brand and size the car left with from the factory. Don't change your air filter, up the octane in your fuel, switch to race synthetic oil! You won't be stock anymore. Yeah, obviously I'm getting bogged down in the minutiae, but that's my point. In order to make your argument stick, you have to do the same. I guess if you're only concerned with being the magazine winner then you got it. Awd is better.:hail:
There are lots of examples through the years where manufacturers have intentionally left things off from a car in order to hit a price point or a qualification for a certain class or simply because they knew that if someone was truly going to use the car for it's intended purposes, it would be changed.
:cheers::cheers:

Have you been to tx2k event? Tons of awd cars winning modified street car classes.

hudt some food for thought. Too bad awd is too expensive.

 

[FordBlueHeart]

Have you been to tx2k event? Tons of awd cars winning modified street car classes.

hudt some food for thought. Too bad awd is too expensive.

Of course not. I live in northern Michigan. Nor would I even want to go anywhere near Houston. Too hot.
Too expensive is the biggest reason you won't see awd in the S550 and probably the S650. It's not worth the investment needed.

 

[mustang_guy]

We are talking from the factory. Your bringing in drag cars and modified cars to the equation.

I'm not even going to try to respond to all your comments because most of them don't make sense. Ferrari and all makes make fast cars, awd, rwd, etc. There is a combination of materials, price, components, engine position, it's not just AWD or RWD that makes it faster than the other at that realm. You pay for a ferrari for the name, there are cars that perform par with a ferrari for half the price.

Back to my topic. RWD vs AWD - perfect example relevant to the GT500, hellcat vs gtr. Roughly same quarter mile, the GTR does it with 20% less hp, and they are about the same weight. This is the comparison I'd like the GT500 to be up against. Factory performance not modified race cars that your talking about.

RWD required tires and a better driver. Same car hp, same factory dot tires, same driver, the AWD will out perform consistently. That's my point. Your adding modifications and years of development for RWD cars be your deciding factor that it's better. It may be better for all out drag racing currently, but that's all out drag cars. We are talking street factory cars.

I can respect your experience at the track. Properly set up cars for drag racing is completely different then cars that come from the factory. Usually mustangs can out perform most when it comes down to performance per buck and 1/4 mile times. Which is why I have one! :ford:

Edit.. Also. What are the fastest 1/4 mile factory cars currently on the market? AWD or RWD? what's the percentage and numbers?

im bring in modified because most performance cars dont stay stock in the hands of enthusiasts. Even stock rwd on summers can cut 1.7-1.8 60fts if its in the hands of a worth a damn driver. I had zero issues spanking down a stock gtr in any year when my 14 gt500 was stock. I ran 100% stock my first pass 11.3@127 with a 1.8 60ft on the stock crap that is called goodyear supercars in 1200-1700 DA with a full tank of gas. Backed by two more 11.3s at 126 with a high 1.7 60ft. I didnt see awd saving them street or the track. They straight lost. Period.

I disagree. They make perfect sense. I have yet to see any awd ferrari. :shrug: Being on par with ferrari? Maybe older out dated models or models that arent intended to be track monsters. Ive yet to see a single awd gtr or evo dominate a full on gr40tt mustang of any year with griggs. Infact ive yet to hear of a ferrari that can run bruce griggs down either. .

See my above 1/4 time. Hadnt lost to a single gtr when stock. This is how i know you are a green drag racer whether it be street or strip. What you fail to understand is the difference in et'ing low but having a lot less mph. Et is drastically bothered by your 60ft time. The gtr doesnt trap on par with a hellcat, 13-14 gt500 or z06. The only times it could is when the hellcat isnt using the red key like it should be using. The black key is worthless. Or it has a crappy driver. Same for the gt500 or vette/viper driver related Trap speed is power related and slightly influenced by wheel spin. There is no 100% stock 126+ trapping gtrs in postive DA.

You cannot have both of them set up the same stock vs stock. Suspension settings matterm thats what you arent getting. No rwd except a cobra jet is set up from the factory to hook like that. All things equal with both dialed in suspensions and on upgraded tires of their choicr the gtr will get drug if the rwd knows how to launch. Driver mod is the biggest factor other then suspension settings for rwd. It does not need to be an all out drag car. Ill say it again, a 700-800hp awd car on MPSS will and does spin its ass off. The idea that awd will make a gt500 better is a stupid large fallacy. My sti with 650-750whp (pending on psi) spins its freaking ass off on anything less then hoosier slicks or any other slicks. I have straight smoked a set of MPSS. Youll still need a driver mod to get awd with anything more then 550whp on street tires. Thats part of the whole reason ive brought up modded. Its to give you an idea of what a gt500 with awd and 700-750whp stock would be like. It will have traction challenges too. Its why you see gtrs rolling around on slicks or radials. Because they cant find traction either!


The fastest stock 1/4 mile regardless of DA are all rwd. C6 zr1, c7 z06 which runs about the same times 10.6s stock tires. Non stock tire low 10s for both. LaFerrari 1/4 mile in 9.6 @ 157 mph, P1 1/4 mile 9.8 @ 148.9 mph

Lets discuss rally racing. It's a good metaphor for a big HP car on factory tires and on the street (the available traction is low when compared to the available HP).

After that can we talk about the Audi quattro R18 Le Mans winner?

Awd vs rwd rally cars? :lol: you know that rwd has been just as competive in that sport if not more?

F1 cars crush lemans cars and lmp1 cars. Rwd>awd

 

[mustang_guy]

Have you been to tx2k event? Tons of awd cars winning modified street car classes.

hudt some food for thought. Too bad awd is too expensive.

Awd cars have gotten a lot more competitive in all corners of motorsports. But it is not predominantly winning most tx2ks, nhra or any other motorsports. Rwd is hands down. A lot of guys that go to tx2k with rwd have their suspension set up still in the fine tuning process or are just guessing til something works better :lol: a lot of people struggle with dialing it in. Most dont set their cars up right. Its not easy to learn and most dont share secrets because they like having the edge on competition.

The gtr in general is stupid to mod, forget about cheaper chassis to mod like the evo or sti. The gtr is the biggest rip off ever :eyebulge:. Its worse 100 fold over modding a supra or gt500.

 

[Hack]

I guess all of you proponents of awd keep your car stock after you buy it? Then when someone pulls up next to you and wants to run you ask them if they're stock?

Not sure why you are changing the subject here. I would like the car to be quick off the line in stock form. If you want a big HP RWD car modified to your specs you can easily make a regular GT into that car, which could conceivably walk any of the past GT500s with ease. There's always someone faster.

F1 cars crush lemans cars and lmp1 cars. Rwd>awd

F1 is mid engine, runs slicks and weighs practically nothing. It also has so much aero it could run upside down. Apples and oranges.

 

[mustang_guy]

Not sure why you are changing the subject here. I would like the car to be quick off the line in stock form. If you want a big HP RWD car modified to your specs you can easily make a regular GT into that car, which could conceivably walk any of the past GT500s with ease. There's always someone faster.



F1 is mid engine, runs slicks and weighs practically nothing. It also has so much aero it could run upside down. Apples and oranges.

You wanted to talk about an awd lemans car like it was some bench mark that rwd cant beat. :shrug: I named something thats rwd that rapes it to hell and back its now apples to oranges? Le mans and lmp1 runs slicks, they both are very light as well.

I dont know why people cant handle the fact that rwd is king. Awd has its own pros and cons. As does rwd. Buy what you like. But for anyone to pretend or thinm that a gt500 tt v8 awd will have traction is freaking hilariously false. So ill state again the gt500 doesnt need awd at all. The real problem is tire technology has yet to catch up to the amount of power cars can easily make these days. Its unfortunate that we need slicks or radials with awd or rwd but it is what it is.

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