Toyota GR86 Anyone?

[Hack]

The market is not big enough, and why the mx5 is the last small 2 seater left.
Everyone says they like a lighter mustang, but if Ford built another mustangII they call fowl.
Funny thing about car people what they claim they want that comes out of their mouths is the polar opposite of what they open their wallets for and buy.
We want a sporty full sized, so they dolled up a grand mark in all black, didn't sell, gm had the G8 didn't sell, we want a rear drive v8 coupe that isn't pony car small, GTO, didn't sell. the list of the oem's hearing the car cultures wants, and then hearing crickets when it gets on the sales floor is a long one. So it all falls on def ears now. and I don't blame them one bit, we have burned them more than a few times.

MX5 is a small two seater, but this thread is about small 2-seaters made by Toyota and Subaru. Toyota also makes the Supra, which is a small 2 seater based on another small 2 seater made by BMW. Corvette is a small 2 seater AFAIK they are currently selling quite well. Porsche makes some small 2 seaters and some 4 seaters that really are 2 seaters with a package shelf. So no, the MX5 is not even close to the last small 2 seater left.

I think the Mustang II was a good car. At the time, many, many people agreed. Ford sold 1.1 million of them. The first year of the Mustang II sold way more (386,000) than the 1973 fat pony did (135,000). So if you dislike Mustang IIs, that is your personal deal. My guess is Ford loves them and would love to have success like that again. If Ford shrinks the Mustang and gets that big of an increase in sales again they would be thrilled. In 2020, Ford sold 61,000 Mustangs. Ford could have made a lot more money if they had a Mustang design that would sell like the Mustang II did. Remember that even though the car got a lot smaller, the V8 still fit in the Mustang II.

My point is - you have a bias and you are ignoring the facts in your post. I have a bias too, but reality is that small cars can sell really well. They do have to be "right sized" and real people have to be able to fit inside. One reason I've never owned a Miata is I don't fit. But there's a ton of room in my 944. So it can be done if automotive designers care to do it.

G8s and GTOs are not small by any means. And they are also ugly. They didn't sell because they have really bland styling. You almost have to be a really serious car guy to even notice them on the street and know what they are. IMO bringing up those cars was totally off topic.

I think the market is big enough for a smaller Mustang if the price is right and the car is good enough. I think people like me are almost desperate for a decent small car.

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[Hack]

They drive like a 3rd gen f -body.
You can get the same fun driving, analog feel , not super refined driving enjoyment of the 86, for 20k less, buying a 3rd gen f-body.
Bonus you get a v8 and ease of adding as much power as you like. Down side, none of the infotainment Stuff people have to have today, but that is a 300-1000.00 fix.

I drove modified Fox Mustangs year round until 2011. The last one had an engine I assembled, a Tremec 3550 I bought used and rebuilt plus a bunch of Maximum Motorsports suspension bits. It got hit and totalled while parked on the side of the street. That really educated me about how poor a job insurance does with an older modified car. And at that point I decided that my daily driver needed to be newer and mostly stock.

Yes an older Mustang or Camaro is an ok choice for driving. Either would be pretty fun. But there are a lot of downsides.

 

[ICU812]

MX5 is a small two seater, but this thread is about small 2-seaters made by Toyota and Subaru. Toyota also makes the Supra, which is a small 2 seater based on another small 2 seater made by BMW. Corvette is a small 2 seater AFAIK they are currently selling quite well. Porsche makes some small 2 seaters and some 4 seaters that really are 2 seaters with a package shelf. So no, the MX5 is not even close to the last small 2 seater left.

I think the Mustang II was a good car. At the time, many, many people agreed. Ford sold 1.1 million of them. The first year of the Mustang II sold way more (386,000) than the 1973 fat pony did (135,000). So if you dislike Mustang IIs, that is your personal deal. My guess is Ford loves them and would love to have success like that again. If Ford shrinks the Mustang and gets that big of an increase in sales again they would be thrilled. In 2020, Ford sold 61,000 Mustangs. Ford could have made a lot more money if they had a Mustang design that would sell like the Mustang II did. Remember that even though the car got a lot smaller, the V8 still fit in the Mustang II.

My point is - you have a bias and you are ignoring the facts in your post. I have a bias too, but reality is that small cars can sell really well. They do have to be "right sized" and real people have to be able to fit inside. One reason I've never owned a Miata is I don't fit. But there's a ton of room in my 944. So it can be done if automotive designers care to do it.

G8s and GTOs are not small by any means. And they are also ugly. They didn't sell because they have really bland styling. You almost have to be a really serious car guy to even notice them on the street and know what they are. IMO bringing up those cars was totally off topic.

I think the market is big enough for a smaller Mustang if the price is right and the car is good enough. I think people like me are almost desperate for a decent small car.

only one is 26-28k soft top.33-35k retractable targa top.

 

[ICU812]

I drove modified Fox Mustangs year round until 2011. The last one had an engine I assembled, a Tremec 3550 I bought used and rebuilt plus a bunch of Maximum Motorsports suspension bits. It got hit and totalled while parked on the side of the street. That really educated me about how poor a job insurance does with an older modified car. And at that point I decided that my daily driver needed to be newer and mostly stock.

Yes an older Mustang or Camaro is an ok choice for driving. Either would be pretty fun. But there are a lot of downsides.

Yup, normal insurance coverage blows on anything you mod.
My other vehicles fall under collector/classic car insurance.
So that isn't an issue, but I can't use them as a daily either. so it is a trade off.
For a daily it is better to get a factory built and hope the book value doesn't nose dive over a older modded up car. That book value will be a joke.

 

[Hack]

I was watching a review and the GR86 is actually a 4 seat car. Not a 2 seater. Which is fine by me.

 

[my03mach1]

So I actually picked up my 2022 BRZ last month and I've been loving it. It pretty much fixed every complaint I had about the last car and I'm super impressed with almost 2K miles and a track day in. Power is definitely very much improved, I thought it may not be as quick as my tuned Fiesta ST, but honestly it's pretty close.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

So I actually picked up my 2022 BRZ last month and I've been loving it. It pretty much fixed every complaint I had about the last car and I'm super impressed with almost 2K miles and a track day in. Power is definitely very much improved, I thought it may not be as quick as my tuned Fiesta ST, but honestly it's pretty close.

Why did you choose the Sub over the Toyota version?

 

[Hack]

So I actually picked up my 2022 BRZ last month and I've been loving it. It pretty much fixed every complaint I had about the last car and I'm super impressed with almost 2K miles and a track day in. Power is definitely very much improved, I thought it may not be as quick as my tuned Fiesta ST, but honestly it's pretty close.

I know I need to figure this out for myself, but how are the ergonomics? I'm 6'4" and that's my biggest worry is I'll have trouble fitting in it.

I drove a tuned FiST once, and I remember thinking that initial launch was harder than the GT350 I owned at the time. Not that I'm saying the GT350 launches hard - it has crappy gears for that. But what you are saying sounds very promising to me from a street performance standpoint.

 

[my03mach1]

Why did you choose the Sub over the Toyota version?

Initially I actually wanted the GR86 but I liked the updates Subaru did to the suspension, where as Toyota kept some of the parts from the former car. I also trust the Subaru dealer close to me more than any of the Toyota dealers here. Subaru also put up pre orders back in July, so I ordered instantly. Glad I did, because I'm crazy impatient and GR's are just starting to land now. I was a little worried I wouldn't like the looks as much, but I think the car looks amazing up close. Tad bit biased now, but I really like it.

I know I need to figure this out for myself, but how are the ergonomics? I'm 6'4" and that's my biggest worry is I'll have trouble fitting in it.

I drove a tuned FiST once, and I remember thinking that initial launch was harder than the GT350 I owned at the time. Not that I'm saying the GT350 launches hard - it has crappy gears for that. But what you are saying sounds very promising to me from a street performance standpoint.

Ergonomics are pretty good, I'm 6'1-2 and I fit well. With a helmet though, it definitely starts to get a bit cramped. The seat can lower in height, and I found reclining a bit helps a lot. At 6'4 a helmet may cause some trouble, but it may be workable without one.

The new gen makes max torque at 4K now, before the torque dip (Which is also hugely improved and doesn't really bother me). So it's not the turbocharged punch that the FiST has but when you step on it the engine definitely responds well and doesn't feel lethargic like the last one does down low. The gearing is short, and with a 4.10 final drive it just feels super sweet to run through the gears. The Fiesta is definitely more of an animal when launching while the BRZ is a little smoother and quicker to redline. It definitely doesn't feel like the 350 with that long first gear.

At the very least it's worth a test drive to see if it's the right choice for you.

 

[Doolin64]

I drove a new BRZ yesterday. I think they look great. I'm 6'2 260lbs and she's a tight fit seat wise. I'm a big guy but "not wide". Once nestled inside I was very comfortable aside from seat pinch. Great shifter and fun to drive. I just couldn't get past ingress and egress, a tight seat and a motor that lacked any nice sounds or really any sound at all. It's too bad they couldn't make this engine sing a nice a note. If I was into track days this thing would be a hoot. But as a weekend ride/cruising car it was just too loud on the highway. It's belongs in a back road or track only. Test drove a '20 Mustang convertible right after and it was almost comical how hushed it was on the highway by comparison.

 

[Hack]

Ergonomics are pretty good, I'm 6'1-2 and I fit well. With a helmet though, it definitely starts to get a bit cramped. The seat can lower in height, and I found reclining a bit helps a lot. At 6'4 a helmet may cause some trouble, but it may be workable without one.

At the very least it's worth a test drive to see if it's the right choice for you.

I don't need to fit in it with a helmet as I was planning on using it more as a daily and not as a track car. Yeah, I'll have to do a test drive.

I drove a new BRZ yesterday. I think they look great. I'm 6'2 260lbs and she's a tight fit seat wise. I'm a big guy but "not wide". Once nestled inside I was very comfortable aside from seat pinch. Great shifter and fun to drive. I just couldn't get past ingress and egress, a tight seat and a motor that lacked any nice sounds or really any sound at all. It's too bad they couldn't make this engine sing a nice a note. If I was into track days this thing would be a hoot. But as a weekend ride/cruising car it was just too loud on the highway. It's belongs in a back road or track only. Test drove a '20 Mustang convertible right after and it was almost comical how hushed it was on the highway by comparison.

Now that worries me. I'm taller and weigh 60 lbs less than you, but I'm wide. Mustang seats are too narrow for me.

 

[Doolin64]

Now that worries me. I'm taller and weigh 60 lbs less than you, but I'm wide. Mustang seats are too narrow for me.

I'd definitely try to find one go drive it. I had to drive about 45 min go a dealer that had one in stock. We're all built so different. The Mustang seat (non recaro) is not tight for me at all. The car felt massive after driving the Brz. Then I got back in my truck to go home and I might as well have been driving an 18 wheeler. Haha

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

I think the new Toyota (and Subaru BRZ) GR86 looks good. They upped the power, but not enough. But the styling looks much better. The taillights remind me of the Accord coupe a bit.

If I wasn't such a muscle car fanboy and had a strong bias for V8s Id get one. Solid good car. I'd consider getting one as a DD but they aren't as practical. I could have gotten the old Scion FR-S years ago but I got the tC instead because it had the additional cargo space I needed.

Very cool car though, its nice when a car manufacture makes a solid improvement with little to now faults with the new generation. These days, any new car is a hit or miss.

 

[Mustang_Lou]

a motor that lacked any nice sounds or really any sound at all. It's too bad they couldn't make this engine sing a nice a note.

This would likely be a deal breaker for me if I was in the market as the sound is a huge part of my enjoyment when driving ... now, if someone comes out with unequal length headers that may change as I'd give up a few HP for better exhaust sound any day.

 

[Doolin64]

This would likely be a deal breaker for me if I was in the market as the sound is a huge part of my enjoyment when driving ... now, if someone comes out with unequal length headers that may change as I'd give up a few HP for better exhaust sound any day.

And you can make a 4 cyl enjoyable from a sound point of you. That ugly Fiat 500 with the Abarth package sounds wonderful (just as an example). But unfortunately the BRZ does not. Heck I enjoyed the sound of the sounaktor in my GTI that I could turn on and off.

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