student debt forgiveness is back

[Strokerswild]

I just find it so much more fun to leave loaded firearms in strategic locations around the house.

"One on every floor of the house", is my motto.

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[FreePenguin]

Donald, not everyone who goes to college uses it to get a job. College is a place to become further educated. A lot of people go for majors/minors that have absolutely nothing to do with where they plan their future employment. For instance my carpenter has a degree in Zoology. Why, because he liked it. Not everyone go to become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. That's what liberal arts is all about. It's a good start for an 18 year old who doesn't know what they want to be yet.

I understand that, then it should be on that person.

I do not support these enlightenment programs for students on my dollar. Ifa system was to be implemented it should be required to
Be a useful degree

Ie. Maybe a government list of demand jobs, accountant etc. let them get free schooling. In return, they can work for the government as accountant for a few years with a fair wage and get some real experience before moving somewhere else.

if they bail, they owe all the college back.

gets rid of useless degrees when it comes to taxes. - useful degrees get paid w a guaranteed job. If you fail somewhere you owe it bacm

so drop outs don’t waste years of a degree and we get nothing back from them.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

The governments of many countries are far more involved in education and healthcare than the USA, and many of these countries pay a fraction of what we do for education and healthcare. Private universities are exponentially more expensive than state universities. This isn't just a simple issue that we can point a finger at the gov and say "you did it". There are ways the government has helped the cost of education in this country. Back when I was in school, I was making $10/hr from a government research grant. Best part time job I ever had, and it allowed me to pay for books/food/housing.

I was on a government research grant too! It was at the USDA, I was in community college and it was $15/hr. Best job I ever had and first one that wasn't minimum wage. It helped me save up money before transferring to a 4 year university.

Community college is really such a good place to start. It was $60 every semester for a full load. The only big expense I had was paying rent. In some states community college is free.

Also another thing to consider is that for the vast majority of PhD programs (at least the STEM ones) you don't incur debt like you do as an undergraduate. You can get funding several other ways.

I do agree, with you the college situation is not a black and white picture. I am more familiar on the STEM side of things and the funding is pretty substantial, especially if you are in Engineering. I made about ~$20k in grants last summer from research (and I used it to get my GT350 lol). Can't speak for the Humanities/Liberal Arts side though, I know that within the UC School system, right before the pandemic there was huge protests and issues about funding for them.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

So almost an extension of the GI bill, except for civilian service?

What he is describing is nothing like the GI Bill, giving the GI Bill to civilians would absolutely bankrupt the government lol. It is too good of a deal.

He's talking something similar to loan-repayment programs sponsored by the government. I know that there are similar programs for health professionals.

 

[Strokerswild]

Why not one in every room? Not there yet, but give me some time.

Well, there are enough of them on hand....

 

[sk47]

Donald, not everyone who goes to college uses it to get a job. College is a place to become further educated. A lot of people go for majors/minors that have absolutely nothing to do with where they plan their future employment.

Hello; So lets see if I am understanding this statement. I am retired and have thought about going to one of the automotive trade schools to learn about the modern systems of vehicles now days. Not to get a job as a mechanic nor to open a shop. Just for my own personal gratification. Just to be a more well rounded shade tree mechanic. I know the mechanical side well enough. I do not know the computer side much. I never had the opportunity to work with the good engine machines such as line boring and the like.
Is this the sort of becoming further educated idea you mention? Not so I will be employed but more to scratch a personal itch? I can see the value of such a thing for an individual. Not sure my neighbor who goes to a hard job of work every day will want to help me pay for such a personal indulgence.
In fact if my neighbors children want to go to college to get a non-occupational degree to become more well rounded people, I can see the value in that for them personally. I do not however wish to fund such a thing any more than my neighbor may wish to indulge my pipe dream of attending a mechanics trade school at 73 years of age.

In the end those of us who wind up having to pay for these programs ought to be given some substantial say it the matter. Perhaps the more telling statement made in these threads is the one I will try to repeat. Something along the line that when enough folks can vote for free stuff for them selves, then the game is over for the rest of us. Could be that milestone has been reached.

 

[sk47]

He's talking something similar to loan-repayment programs sponsored by the government. I know that there are similar programs for health professionals.

Hello; Those sorts of programs have been around for some time. I took a job as a public school teacher in a school system in Harlan County KY in 1970. The pay was poor and lots of poverty in the area. So a portion of my federal loan was forgiven each year for up to ten years. I stayed another 18 years in that school system so I guess in some ways society got decent value. I did teach in a state with better wages after I retired in KY.
The program gave incentive for folks like me to take less than ideal jobs in places where there was a need. I see the value in such programs.

 

[Bikeman315]

Hello; So lets see if I am understanding this statement. I am retired and have thought about going to one of the automotive trade schools to learn about the modern systems of vehicles now days. Not to get a job as a mechanic nor to open a shop. Just for my own personal gratification. Just to be a more well rounded shade tree mechanic. I know the mechanical side well enough. I do not know the computer side much. I never had the opportunity to work with the good engine machines such as line boring and the like.
Is this the sort of becoming further educated idea you mention? Not so I will be employed but more to scratch a personal itch? I can see the value of such a thing for an individual. Not sure my neighbor who goes to a hard job of work every day will want to help me pay for such a personal indulgence.
In fact if my neighbors children want to go to college to get a non-occupational degree to become more well rounded people, I can see the value in that for them personally. I do not however wish to fund such a thing any more than my neighbor may wish to indulge my pipe dream of attending a mechanics trade school at 73 years of age.

In the end those of us who wind up having to pay for these programs ought to be given some substantial say it the matter. Perhaps the more telling statement made in these threads is the one I will try to repeat. Something along the line that when enough folks can vote for free stuff for them selves, then the game is over for the rest of us. Could be that milestone has been reached.

Yes, you did understand what I was saying but.......I do not believe in debt forgiveness. I do believe that there "may" be circumstances when debt assistance may be beneficial. To start with forgiveness is a really bad word in this instance. There is nothing to forgive unless you consider going to college a mistake. Now there may be legitimate instances where debt assistance could be of great usefulness. But blanket debt elimination with no plan for some kind of restitution is not the road to go down.

 

[sk47]

Yes, you did understand what I was saying but.......I do not believe in debt forgiveness. I do believe that there "may" be circumstances when debt assistance may be beneficial. To start with forgiveness is a really bad word in this instance. There is nothing to forgive unless you consider going to college a mistake. Now there may be legitimate instances where debt assistance could be of great usefulness. But blanket debt elimination with no plan for some kind of restitution is not the road to go down.

Hello; I guess since the details of such a proposed program are not final, the differences between forgiveness and assistance is not yet clear. In the news it has been called forgiveness so that is why I use the term. I will change my tune if forgiveness is taken off the table.

 

[Bikeman315]

Hello; I guess since the details of such a proposed program are not final, the differences between forgiveness and assistance is not yet clear. In the news it has been called forgiveness so that is why I use the term. I will change my tune if forgiveness is taken off the table.

I didn't mean you SK, I meant in general. The use of the word forgiveness has been wrong from the beginning. The federal government is not forgiving anyone. Their debt wasn't an accident or mistake. It was intentional, therefore forgiveness is not called for. They just want to give our hard earned tax dollars away to a yet undetermined group of people without good cause. Show me exactly where the dollars are going and why. We can take it from there.

 

[FreePenguin]

I am glad you guys understood what I meant, I do all my posting from my iPhone se, like 4 inch screen.
But yeah not militsry style, but a program to help educate then provide a job and fair pay etc do so long to help recoup the cost meanwhile they get experience.

gi bill would bankrupt America, it’s a real nice benefit, but if you served I feel you should get some help.

What dems want makes militsry pointless, and the people I met at college detested militsry benefits claiming it’s not fair and everyone should have them etc... for being a militsry based college a lot of turds hated military and those who served. Pro socialism where everything is a right is all they cared about. Brb taxing my income 80% to get everyone free stuff. No friggin way

 

[Bikeman315]

I am glad you guys understood what I meant, I do all my posting from my iPhone se, like 4 inch screen.
But yeah not militsry style, but a program to help educate then provide a job and fair pay etc do so long to help recoup the cost meanwhile they get experience.

gi bill would bankrupt America, it’s a real nice benefit, but if you served I feel you should get some help.

What dems want makes militsry pointless, and the people I met at college detested militsry benefits claiming it’s not fair and everyone should have them etc... for being a militsry based college a lot of turds hated military and those who served. Pro socialism where everything is a right is all they cared about. Brb taxing my income 80% to get everyone free stuff. No friggin way

Couldn't help thinking of this. Buy the way this is nothing new. Animal House was 1978.

 

[FreePenguin]

Couldn't help thinking of this. Buy the way this is nothing new. Animal House was 1978.

I don’t know that movie, worth watching?

but is this not better than free college? Or do people need to do enlightenment on your and my dollar?

 

[sk47]

he use of the word forgiveness has been wrong from the beginning. The federal government is not forgiving anyone. Their debt wasn't an accident or mistake. It was intentional, therefore forgiveness is not called for.

Hello; OK I see where we have been at crossed up communication. I may have it wrong but do think the "forgiveness" word is a technical term for when a loan is taken off the books by means other than full repayment.
Say you borrowed money from me and later I told you that you do not have to pay me back any longer. The technical term is "forgiveness" has been my understanding.

Not the forgiveness of a mistake which is an entirely different thing. I suppose some of the confusion may have arisen from the points about how some college degrees do not pay well enough and could be thought of as mistakes. Sorry for not understanding the confusion such a misunderstanding can cause.

 

[sk47]

I don’t know that movie, worth watching?

Hello; It was sort of a classic for the time. I was in my early twenties when it came out I think. I do not know if it would translate well today.
Something I have noted about movies and books from my youth. Often when I watch an old movie or re-read an old book the meanings are changed. Sometimes I feel silly for liking them so much when young. Other times I get brand new insights as an old man I missed when young.

The Eastwood Italian westerns come to mind.

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