Stock vs Tuned vs JLT vs PMAS - The Real Dyno Test!

[Livernois Motorsports]

You don't make an intake. You rebranded the Airaid. Just like you don't make an SC system and you rebranded the Magnacharger. I can call my SC the Daltron SC all day long but it's still a a Whipple. You also rebranded Corsa's exhaust as your own too.

You literally take other people's products and rebrand them as your own...

As for wanting to see "unbiased" results, we should probably keep the people who say their rebranded axlebacks make 10-15 HP away from this, no?

Our only goal in here is to try to help. I don't quite understand why some people are trying to derail something that could be so positive to the community at large. We said we would love to be part of the test, but at least want to help with ensuring the test is as accurate as possible. We didn't say we would only help if we were included. So why there is hostility, I just can't understand.

Since you bring up some items we sell under our naming, let me ask you a few things. Can you buy the intake of ours that you posted from someone other than us, or one of our dealers? No. Can you buy our exhaust from anyone other than us or our dealers? No. Can you buy that supercharger kit from anyone other than us or our dealers? No, Magnuson doesn't even make a system for a 15+. Additionally, on the exhaust front, we offer more than just mufflers, we have a whole exhausts, downpipes, and many other items as well that were engineered, designed, and tested by us. Why is it a sin that we have someone do the actual fab-work on them?

None of those items that you mention are going out exactly as they were made by the manufacturer. I fail to see how someone making something for us, to our specifications, does not make it ours? We paid for tooling, design, packaging, marketing, and many other aspects, and often make components for them here, in house.

What you're suggesting is that to be someone's own product, it must be exclusively done 100% in-house.

So, let's analyze that logic. Do you lambaste Ford on the EcoBoost for starting with a Mazda design? or how about for using a co-developed 6-speed, 9-speed, or 10-speed auto? I mean, GM sells something that is almost exactly the same as Ford. What about Ford cars that were really built by subcontracted companies? What about anyone that uses a TVS2300 or 1900 supercharger for claiming it as their kit? After all, Eaton designed it for GM. Every industry has these types of situations. So where does it end? I mean, what about a Roush/Saleen/Shelby car that only has a body kit? I mean it's just a a Mustang with a couple of small changes, so why does the name get to be changed? The money on doing changes to the design, since it's so minor compared to a whole car, shouldn't make it so they can put their name on it, right? These are just some reasons why this logic is flawed.

I just don't understand why we aren't allowed to do testing, do design work, and work with a partner to have it manufactured, while almost every other company is allowed to. We do make changes to our systems and offerings,. It's evident even from the pictures posted that they are not identical.

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[70GrabberMach]

I have no issue giving you the benefit of the doubt, but hopefully you can recognize the huge coincidence we see of Livernois being called out and within 45 minutes we have an account that was created today posting their first posts in this thread defending Livernois' re-branding.

I completely agree with your concern, but I will admit fully, I have no idea what they do as a company other than they are listed on the vendor board and are involved in this conversation. I saw the thread starter being beefcake and I have friends who have done business with him in the past, this is something I am interested in. Along with eventually moving into suspension mods and I know he covers that market too. I just find it great that a company is willing to put forth the effort for the community to show results from a test that (seems) to be a source of contention among the community.

 

[70GrabberMach]

Just so we are all clear, you have zero affiliation with Livernois? You just happen to be a random guy on the internet looking to sell his 1970 Mach 1 for an S550?

Not looking to sell anything. I have a 70 Mach1 and I am looking to buy a newer Mustang. And once said Mustang is purchased I would enjoy modding said vehicle. So do us all a favor, and check yourself before you wreck yourself.

 

[Jeff's FRC]

These CAI threads are always....interesting, to say the least.

Almost glad I don't have to read them anymore now that I bought the Whipple, but I would still like to see Livernois CAI included. I'm a strong believer in closed box intakes being better for street cars and run a modified Airaid myself.

 

[Jeff's FRC]

check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Lmao!

As Ice Cube once said, "So chickity-check yo self before you wreck yo self Cause big d!cks up yo a$$ is bad for yo health"

 

[Need4Speed15]

We have knowledge amassed over 68 years of performing testing for OEM's. If the goal is to get accurate results, isn't solid, OEM backed information useful? There is a ton of things that need to be done to ensure accurate test results, and we just want to help.

It's a simple back to back dyno test of two different CAI's, we are not sending people to the moon here. Besides having the same coolant temps and performing the dyno runs in the same gear and rpm ranges along the the required tune changes for the different diameter CAI tubes, what else is there?

If you want to help, why not list the "tons" if things that need to be done to ensure accurate test results? Maybe I'm missing something?

What exactly is "testing for OEM's" and "OEM backed information", and how is it useful and applicable to the test that beefcake wants to do?

 

[Chameleon]

 

[1320']

CAI threads..always a sure bet to get nasty.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

It's a simple back to back dyno test of two different CAI's, we are not sending people to the moon here. Besides having the same coolant temps and performing the dyno runs in the same gear and rpm ranges along the the required tune changes for the different diameter CAI tubes, what else is there?

If you want to help, why not list the "tons" if things that need to be done to ensure accurate test results? Maybe I'm missing something?

What exactly is "testing for OEM's" and "OEM backed information", and how is it useful and applicable to the test that beefcake wants to do?

Accurate testing really is quite difficult to do. You need to remove all variables from the equation except the component being tested. So, you need to make every response from the vehicle as controlled as possible. To do this, there is a laundry list of things to do in the calibration to ensure no anomalies come into play for the testing. In concert with this, since it cannot feasibly be done in a climate controlled environment, then even more things must be done in the calibration, and also in sampling the data to be able to properly account for these uncontrollable aspects.

this is something far too in-depth to share on an open forum, but we have known [MENTION=10926]beefcake[/MENTION] for a good long time, and he can attest to the perspective and knowledge we have. We can definitely assist, but we can't just lay everything out.

 

[daltron]

Not looking to sell anything. I have a 70 Mach1 and I am looking to buy a newer Mustang.

I incorrectly assumed that your avatar was your actual car.

 

[1badrz28]

Just swapped out my paper element 14"x2" air cleaner for an oiled 14"x2" one. The seat of the pants was off the chart.

 

[new302]

Excellent idea! Thanks in advance beef. I'm in for the results.

 

[SVT Wylde]

These CAI threads are always....interesting, to say the least.

Almost glad I don't have to read them anymore now that I bought the Whipple, but I would still like to see Livernois CAI included. I'm a strong believer in closed box intakes being better for street cars and run a modified Airaid myself.

Agreed. What is 2-3 more pulls on a customers car with a closed box going to matter? Give people a decent test of all the designs so they can decide for themselves. Why are closed boxes being ruled out? Must not be as much profit margin in them v/s the others.

 

[mustang_guy]

Agreed. What is 2-3 more pulls on a customers car with a closed box going to matter? Give people a decent test of all the designs so they can decide for themselves. Why are closed boxes being ruled out? Must not be as much profit margin in them v/s the others.

Easy to volunteer a car that isnt yours, isnt it?

 

[Lonmon]

I love how someone goes through the trouble to test some things out and share the info with the community and all some can do is criticize. Beef is taking hours of his day, wear and tear on a dyno, a customers car, etc and he gets to hear people cry about how he's doing the test, which intakes he's testing, etc. Terry eats and breathes this stuff to the benefit of us all. How about just chill, wait for the tests and thank him for the results.

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