Side by Side header test, same car same day! SW & ARH!

[Cascadia_302]

its an auto car. tune and headers

auto car robs a lot of power on the dyno. it will still translate at the track.

I would stick a cai on for another 10, and run against any 444-450 rwhp manual any day of the week

I looked and I apologize if I missed this but I assume we're talking same primary sizes here for the comparison.
What is your take on the 1 3/4" vs. 1 7/8" difference? Is it still torque vs. HP benefit between the primary sizes?

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[beefcake]

I looked and I apologize if I missed this but I assume we're talking same primary sizes here for the comparison.
What is your take on the 1 3/4" vs. 1 7/8" difference? Is it still torque vs. HP benefit between the primary sizes?

both were 1 7/8

these cars really like to breath, on n/a they run very close in power, so we typically do the 1 7/8 on most every build

 

[Cascadia_302]

Do you recommend ceramic-coat or header-wrap for street or competition?

 

[beefcake]

Do you recommend ceramic-coat or header-wrap for street or competition?

no, not really, I've never had an issue in our car with over 400 passes plus 15 k street miles

 

[Cascadia_302]

OK, I was thinking more along the lines of higher underhood heat temps when running headers. Thanks for your insight!

 

[beefcake]

OK, I was thinking more along the lines of higher underhood heat temps when running headers. Thanks for your insight!

we've never had an issue. imo that's money that can go toward other items.

 

[Cascadia_302]

I realize apples to oranges comparison here...
The underhood heat was such a major issue when I was bracket racing the 429SCJ in the Torino. It was full header wrap, big ass electric fan, fully iced cool-can with hood up coming down the return road. Boy those were the days.

 

[A.R. Headers]

Guys, there's a couple of differences that can clearly be seen in the photo's. One is that all ARH systems use some form of merge collector, (which also affects manufacturing costs but we feel the merge always has the performance advantage regardless of what any dyno says). Those same collectors can be modified to suit the engine combination where applicable. In other words, if you were going to hit this combination with a 100-200 shot of nitrous, we'd recommend 3-1/2" collectors. These are upgrades we perform on a daily basis on many of our header lines.
Second, you don't see cut welds in our pipes. Whenever possible we design our header systems to eliminate cut and welds. It decreases any possibility of failure.

Nick
A.R. Headers

 

[beefcake]

Guys, there's a couple of differences that can clearly be seen in the photo's. One is that all ARH systems use some form of merge collector, (which also affects manufacturing costs but we feel the merge always has the performance advantage regardless of what any dyno says). Those same collectors can be modified to suit the engine combination where applicable. In other words, if you were going to hit this combination with a 100-200 shot of nitrous, we'd recommend 3-1/2" collectors. These are upgrades we perform on a daily basis on many of our header lines.
Second, you don't see cut welds in our pipes. Whenever possible we design our header systems to eliminate cut and welds. It decreases any possibility of failure.

Nick
A.R. Headers

This is what Nick is referring to guys. For those that aren't real familiar with what a merge collector is.

Example, on our 2011 car, we will be running a 4.5" merge collector to suit the power of the car.

I also pointed out the welds that nick is referring too.

 

[ronnies_mustang_5o]

Definitely not worth the extra $$ for the ARH imo. I loved the ARH in my 2011 Hemi, but the only reason I bought them was simply cause there were no other options. Glad to see SW is making a quality product for an affordable price. Unfortunately headers just aren't good bang for your buck mods, but at least they sound good

 

[beefcake]

Definitely not worth the extra $$ for the ARH imo. I loved the ARH in my 2011 Hemi, but the only reason I bought them was simply cause there were no other options. Glad to see SW is making a quality product for an affordable price. Unfortunately headers just aren't good bang for your buck mods, but at least they sound good

I think both companies make a quality product.

These are my thoughts.

If your doing a full perf connect system, Either company is a great option.

If you are planning on running an aftermarket cat back, I'd lean toward the SW.

If you are planning on running the stock exhaust or an axle back, I'd lean toward the arh.

IMO you def want to get rid of the can. Decide what your plans are for th back end of the exhaust, and that is where you make your decision at.

That way you don't end up with a Frankenstein system with 3 or 4 different companies of parts mixed in.

All of these usa made companies put a lot of time and effort into these system. They use great material to put out a quality product. And they back that product for the life of the time it's on the car vs 1 or 2 years like a lot of places.

 

[Blk2015GT]

Definitely not worth the extra $$ for the ARH imo. I loved the ARH in my 2011 Hemi, but the only reason I bought them was simply cause there were no other options. Glad to see SW is making a quality product for an affordable price. Unfortunately headers just aren't good bang for your buck mods, but at least they sound good

I disagree. The SW vs ARH catback systems, the ARH was only $100 more. ARH gets the edge, even $100 more expensive, for their fabulous CS and willingness to help.

They answer emails immediately and even called me to address a shipping issue within an hour. If you remember some people got SW catbacks (during that whole hp argument) and never had their calls or emails answered at all by SW. And talking to the owners you hear it that they really believe in and stand by their product and are excited about their product.

I trust my business, and dealing with any issues, long-term to them. As they say, you get what you pay for. Same reason Apple charges more for their products; their CS is A+++ and people will pay more for better support.

 

[Farmundeh]

I disagree. The SW vs ARH catback systems, the ARH was only $100 more. ARH gets the edge, even $100 more expensive, for their fabulous CS and willingness to help.

They answer emails immediately and even called me to address a shipping issue within an hour. If you remember some people got SW catbacks (during that whole hp argument) and never had their calls or emails answered at all by SW. And talking to the owners you hear it that they really believe in and stand by their product and are excited about their product.

I trust my business, and dealing with any issues, long-term to them. As they say, you get what you pay for. Same reason Apple charges more for their products; their CS is A+++ and people will pay more for better support.

^ This. If I decide to pull the trigger on headers, there is no question as to which brand I’m going with. My experiences with ARH are well-documented across multiple threads, in connection with their H-pipe catback I had put on my car. The customer service is great (Nick personally helped with the install of my catback on a Friday night) and it’s clear that the product is top notch. I can’t recall hearing of a single S550 GT that’s running ARH headers putting up questionable/low numbers on a dyno; they’ve been strong across the board. I absolutely appreciate the comparison that Beef conducted and agree that performance wise, the SW headers are a decent option as well. But if I’m going to be spending close to 2k (if not more) on a set of headers + tune, then I’m going with the option that is most likely to result in max HP gain and has the customer support to back the product up in the event I run into any issues. SW has done very little with respect to the latter to win my business.

 

[ronnies_mustang_5o]

I disagree. The SW vs ARH catback systems, the ARH was only $100 more. ARH gets the edge, even $100 more expensive, for their fabulous CS and willingness to help.

They answer emails immediately and even called me to address a shipping issue within an hour. If you remember some people got SW catbacks (during that whole hp argument) and never had their calls or emails answered at all by SW. And talking to the owners you hear it that they really believe in and stand by their product and are excited about their product.

I trust my business, and dealing with any issues, long-term to them. As they say, you get what you pay for. Same reason Apple charges more for their products; their CS is A+++ and people will pay more for better support.

The price difference is actually closer $600, you can buy SW for just a hair over $1,000 if you shop around enough. I'm a HUGE Apple fanboy because their products are priced competitively and their quality wins every time. But there's NO way I'm paying $600 more for ZERO gains.

That being said, SW isn't the best in the customer service department. I appreciate ARH being active in the forum and discussing stuff with their customers.

 

[Blk2015GT]

The price difference is actually closer $600, you can buy SW for just a hair over $1,000 if you shop around enough. I'm a HUGE Apple fanboy because their products are priced competitively and their quality wins every time. But there's NO way I'm paying $600 more for ZERO gains.

That being said, SW isn't the best in the customer service department. I appreciate ARH being active in the forum and discussing stuff with their customers.

I was only referencing the catback. But no one said you have to choose one or the other, just pointing out you are paying for quality and support. See the above about the welds, and you already know of the CS level. If something goes wrong with your SW, don't expect a lot of help from them from history here. ARH expect them to call you and make it right no matter what.

Again, remember Beef's note that the ARH comes with a X/H, it's not just the headers. SW doesn't so may be a bit cheaper because of it.

It's like choosing a Fujitsu vs Lenovo laptop. Sure thy are hundreds apart and both the same specs, but you know you are getting quality and service from one for more money. You dont have to choose that way though if all you are concerned about is price.

moIf I'm going to buy something you buy once for the car, a few hundred bucks shouldn't matter. I'm more worried say 2 years from now and say a hanger weld falls off (or god forbid something more expensive like the header weld breaks on the tubes) who is going to be responsive to fix problems. My money is on ARH.

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