Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[sk47]

Hello; Since the pattern has been for you to twist things I write I will not spend too much energy on this at first.

Hello; I made this statement back in post #6087. Many pages and posts later such has continued to be the case. He will twist comments we make and also just makes stuff up, such as the following.
Quote GT Pony;
"What you're basically saying is that you don't believe in this vaccine, and if so then you can't/don't believe in any vaccine, and instead think people's immune system don't need any vaccine for any disease. You'd rather see millions of people suffer and die instead of seeing a vaccine used because you think their immume system can do it without any help. Looks like you're wrong about that by many millions of times."
end quote

He has done this to me several times. Posting false conjecture from the thinnest of basis. You had covid and recovered. You have natural immunity. Not taking the covid shots does not make you want millions to die, only that by bad luck you caught the virus, survived and personally do not need the shots.
The unvaccinated who have not yet had the virus are taking a chance of a bad illness if infected. That the much greater majority ( over 98% )will be Ok if infected does not mean all are going to be OK, I get that. Some will get very ill and some will die. Thing is that is now the same deal for us vaccinated. Some vaccinated are getting infected and getting very ill and some are dying. The odds appear to be better for the vaccinated being the difference. But you naturally immune have some level of protection.


I pay little attention to him most of the time. He has been a useful foil on which I have been able to refine the language of my responses. I figure he may know and understand exactly what he is doing and if so it is an underhanded dishonest tactic. If he does not understand what he is doing, then it is sad.

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[OnThree]

Science deniers: "Pharma companies are pushing vaccines to make money"

Also science deniers: "This essential oil MLM company's health claims must be true!"

What?? You don't think booster shots every 5 months is obviously a money grab??

Because we all know big pharma would never put profits over everything else. They are always the gold standard for ethics. No clue what essential oil have to do with anything. You can ask questions without being a alternative medicine pusher, shocking I know.

 

[GT Pony]

Hello; I made this statement back in post #6087. Many pages and posts later such has continued to be the case. He will twist comments we make and also just makes stuff up, such as the following.
Quote GT Pony;
"What you're basically saying is that you don't believe in this vaccine, and if so then you can't/don't believe in any vaccine, and instead think people's immune system don't need any vaccine for any disease. You'd rather see millions of people suffer and die instead of seeing a vaccine used because you think their immume system can do it without any help. Looks like you're wrong about that by many millions of times."
end quote

He has done this to me several times. Posting false conjecture from the thinnest of basis. You had covid and recovered. You have natural immunity. Not taking the covid shots does not make you want millions to die, only that by bad luck you caught the virus, survived and personally do not need the shots.
The unvaccinated who have not yet had the virus are taking a chance of a bad illness if infected. That the much greater majority ( over 98% )will be Ok if infected does not mean all are going to be OK, I get that. Some will get very ill and some will die. Thing is that is now the same deal for us vaccinated. Some vaccinated are getting infected and getting very ill and some are dying. The odds appear to be better for the vaccinated being the difference. But you naturally immune have some level of protection.


I pay little attention to him most of the time. He has been a useful foil on which I have been able to refine the language of my responses. I figure he may know and understand exactly what he is doing and if so it is an underhanded dishonest tactic. If he does not understand what he is doing, then it is sad.

LoL, you obviously don't read and see the BS he posts, nor some times even what you post. How many times have you two been proven wrong? He doesn't believe in vaccines (especially this one), he thinks people's immune system don't need any help from a nasty virus. He and you down play the deaths by trying to minimize the rate and use strawman arguments - somehow 5-7 million world deaths just isn't quite enough yet. Some blabber about world cleansing might not be a bad thing. He can't understand how the vaccine really works or why it's being used around the world, nor why a booster shot is recommended - everything is a "money grab" to him. He doesn't even think it's a real vaccine. He's an antivaxxer who got antibodies and a boosted immune system from having Covid, but constantly bad mouths the vaccine which would give people similar antibodies and immune system boost to protect themselves, giving the impression he's talking out both sides of his mouth and only cares about himself - and you seem to support and defend it. I could go on with more - everyone sees it. I think we know who the actual sad ones are around here.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; If you read the links i posted on this recently you will see many paragraphs explaining how it is found the naturally immune have good protection. They go on to say how they came to the conclusion in some cases with concrete numbers. The large majority of the article dedicated to the findings.
Then at the end of the article a short sentence about getting the jab for extra protection. Perhaps a legal disclaimer?

Also not expressing just personal beliefs. The nature of the immune system and how we react to virus infections is not just personal beliefs. How the immune system works is known and has been known for a long time. That so many millions have had the virus and survived on their own is clear evidence we have an immune system that has worked well for the vast majority. At least over 98% of the infected have survived. Over 99% for younger folks. Along with survival comes the protection of the immune system.
To put it another way, the science was about a study of the human immune system long before the new mRNA vaccines came along. That science did not fold up it's tent and go away along with all the knowledge accumulated. In fact the mRNA shots rely on the immune system to do the heavy work. The shots only trigger the immune system to do it's normal work is what I have been able to find. Hardly just espousing our beliefs.

Or perhaps they recognise that not everyone’s immune response to the original infection will be sufficient to deal with future infections? How do they know this? Because it’s been witnessed many times before. This isn’t a novel concept by any means.

Let‘s be real here.
The vaccine is designed to try and protect ~1% of the population.
Can we agree that the number of people previously infected yet still susceptible might sit in the range of 1% or more? (I don’t have evidence either way on this because none of us has a clue what the virus will throw at us next week)
Wouldn‘t it make perfect sense to try and bolster the immune system of those people too? Particularly when new variants are appearing.

I just can’t see the logic in refusing to take a vaccine based on the idea that my previous infection “might” be sufficient to save me.

By analogy, when you break a bone, it heals a little stronger than it was before. This is great, but it doesn’t guarantee you that you can’t break it again, so, you still need to exercise a level of caution.
In this instance, the caution you can exercise is to go and get a jab in the arm. Or not.

Point being that the medical profession almost unanimously agree on this principle, whether you like it or not.

Again, they just might happen to know some things that we don’t.

 

[K4fxd]

He doesn't believe in vaccines (especially this one), he thinks people's immume system don't need any help from a nasty virus.

Please stop saying things I never said as coming from me. If you really think I said that please find a quote from me and post it.

I just can’t see the logic in refusing to take a vaccine based on the idea that my previous infection “might” be sufficient to save me.

Previous infection causes immunity from every other nasty out there, Why is this one different?

 

[GT Pony]

Please stop saying things I never said as coming from me. If you really think I said that please find a quote from me and post it.

It's obvious you don't believe in vaccines especially this one, nor believe that a booster shot is needed - it's just a "money grab" is all you can conclude. You say it all by just what you post. Anyone reading your posts for awhile can plainly see the blantent pattern. You have absolutely nothing good to say about it, and continually down play and bad mouth it and the world pandemic every chance you get. Is that someone who believes in vaccines? You're basically a double speaking antivaxxer because you bad mouth something you see as a value, that is specifically a boosted immune system and antibodies, but you blacklist a vaccine as a way for people to achieve that same thing. You think it's a valuable thing for yourself because you achieved that from having Covid. It's your double speak, being good for you but by God "don't get the evil vaccine" is your message to others.

I'll ask you point blank.

Do you believe in the Covid vaccine?

Do you believe in any vaccine? If so why those and not this one?

Do you believe booster shots are benifical?

Previous infection causes immunity from every other nasty out there, Why is this one different?

If you don't know by now you'll never know.

Do you believe people should just rely on their immune system without the vaccine that's killed millions of people on Earth in only 18 months? That's basically been your message. Of course if they choose to do that then that's fine, but don't act like you know more than science and virology experts, because you don't. Hopefully people don't listen to your nonsense and research and find the facts.

Nobody gives a crap if you get a vaccination or not. But when you continually down play a world pandemic and bad mouth the vaccine when you have antibodies and some level of immunity from having Covid, and then have the audacity to bad mouth something that can provide that same thing to other people, that starts looking kind of sociopathic.

 

[K4fxd]

I'll play. If for no other reason as to see how you twist it.

Do you believe in the Covid vaccine?

I believe the covid vaccine is experimental and was rushed through testing.
In the short term it seems to be fairly safe, some have had bad reactions but most are fine.
Real world studies prove it is helping with reducing symptoms in people who get infected. Time will tell if mRNA jabs are real vaccines.

Do you believe in any vaccine?

Yes, I am vaccinated and so are my kids.
The vaccines I have taken were properly tested and all short term and long term possible side effects are known.

If so why those and not this one?

Explained in the first answer.

Do you believe booster shots are benifical?

In vaccines like Tetanus , yes at 10 year intervals.

If a vaccine needs a booster at 6 months after already having one at 1 month, it is not very effective.

If you don't know by now you'll never know.

That is a non answer designed to imply I'm an idiot.
The question is valid.
Why is this virus so different from every other virus that recovering from it will not protect you from getting it again?

If it in fact is so different, it won't matter if you do get jabbed because that won't work either. Since having the disease causes a response from your immune system. The same response that a vaccine causes.

The rest of your post is just delusional ramblings and does not deserve a response.

 

[Burkey]

Previous infection causes immunity from every other nasty out there, Why is this one different?

You’re taking the piss right?
One word.
Influenza.
That’s just one example that proves you wrong.
There are plenty more I’m sure.
I’m pretty ignorant in this area but you are something else entirely.

 

[K4fxd]

One word.
Influenza.
That’s just one example that proves you wrong.

Actually influenza is a constantly mutating virus and each year we have one or two strains that circulate. If you get the flu that year you are immune from that mutation. Same as if you get the flu shot, you are immune to the mutations the shot contains.

If the covid virus proves to be like the flu then jabbing people with alpha 100 times will not help, it would need to be made for whatever variant happens to take off. The drug companies will then be guessing at two shots. Flu and covid.

 

[Burkey]

If a vaccine needs a booster at 6 months after already having one at 1 month, it is not very effective.

What does the frequency of administration have to do with efficacy?
You eat food daily (presumably). Does that make it an ineffective means of survival?

Strawman fallacy is the name for what you’ve done there.

 

[K4fxd]

Strawman fallacy is the name for what you’ve done there.

No it is what you have done, equating food with the immune system.

 

[CJJon]

Just got my flu vaccine at CVS in NJ. Large number of older folks getting covid boosters.

I am scheduled for my booster Thursday...as is my octogenarian mother.

 

[sk47]

No it is what you have done, equating food with the immune system.

Hello; You called it. I admire your restraint is not using name calling and putdowns when he has clearly made a bad conceptual blunder.
There are three, sometimes four who join in in near lockstep in this thread trying to dismiss any who question some of the ideas coming from authorities concerning the covid outbreak. At least one claims to be well educated in the medical field, yet when his partners make such mistaken comments I wonder why he does not step in to correct. Sometimes allows the false stuff to stand.

The immune systems is not like our digestive system that needs to be refueled on a regular basis. Not sure how many times I have written about the process and how many links I and others have posted explaining how the immune system works, but several for sure.
The immune system is always on and working in a person with a healthy immune system. When a new pathogen invades the immune system knows it is not part of our bodies and will attack the invader. Once known the system will recall the invader and be able to deal with it later.

An immune system reaction ought to be good for more than six months is my take. If the virus is mutated enough so as to appear new to the body that is a reason the immunity will not be good any more. If the mutation is indeed changed enough then a new formulation of a vaccine is needed to match the change in the virus.
That is what is done with the flu. The many strains of flu are always mutating so the vaccines are changed often. Thing is, according to one of my posted links, the covid mRNA shots are required to keep the same formula as the first shots. No change allowed by rule. So the "booster shots" will be identical to the first shot I took. No allowance for the mutated virus at all.

So the two shots I took last winter were supposed to start up an immune system reaction. That reaction is supposed to be just like the immune reaction gained from an actual infection. Yet the naturally immune are still good to go more than eight months after infection for many and the shot takers are getting a third shot after six months.
Also from my recent searching I find the booster will only add the number of antibodies in total for a time. That is supposed to be the big deal. The immune reaction is already up and running so it does not need a restart. I also posted a link about the conceptual differences among immunity medical folks.

 

[CJJon]

Back when these were first being used the best information said they did not provoke an anti body response. Just that they reprogrammed cells to recognise the virus. If the virus was introduced then the anti bodies started being made.

This then made sense as to why jabbed people were infecting others. Now it is said that the jab causes an antibody response.

Blood banks were paying premium amounts of money for blood with antibodies. Jabbed people were not invited.

Either way it is your immune system creating the cells that kill the virus, not the jab.

Since humans have been on this earth we have been exposed to viruses. Some were new mutations never seen before. Most people developed antibodies and survived the sickness, after surviving they were protected against reinfection.

My question is "why is this one different?"

Answer; it is not, our bodies are responding just like in the past.

Sheesh. There is so much wrong with your ideas about how things are. This is really the issue here. You are severely misinformed.

No one said that the vaccine reprogrammed cells that then fight the virus. No one. It is what lay people thought about how this 'new' vaccine worked (never mind most don't know a whit about vaccines and how they work) and the misinformation stuck. FYI mRNA vaccines cause the cells to produce a particular protein of the virus that your body recognizes and then produces antibodies which then go on to fight the virus. It wasn't a secret or a big mystery that had yet to be solved. They just didn't figure this out.

Vaccinated people do not become super-human immune. No one ever claimed so, not once. Yes, infected vaccinated people can shed virus in some infections. Again, this isn't some smoking gun or something kept secret. The fact that you bring this up as a negative thing show bias and misunderstanding of the basics of immunology.

So, would you want blood products from people vaccinated under a EUA in time of global pandemic? How absurd you are.

You are correct, the vaccine itself does not kill the virus. Bleach probably would. Maybe if we could inject some UV light too...

Why is this one different...? Do you really have to ask that? How insensitive and crass. Should we all just say fuck it and do like they did during the middle ages? The hell with antibiotics 'cause most people survived back in the day without them. Bloodletting and leeches all around!

Anyway...

 

[wingnutt]

I'll ask you point blank.

Do you believe in the Covid vaccine?

Do you believe in any vaccine? If so why those and not this one?

Do you believe booster shots are benifical?

if y’all had just asked that 6,000 posts ago, this thread woulda been over back then

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