Road Racers - Weight savings and mods

[autobahnGT350]

Howdy all,

Have an Oxford White with blue stripes, and tech package on order. Excited to be receiving it around May.

Used to road race a C5Z06 in Germany around Hockehenim ring. I made extensive mods to that car for road racing, coolers everywhere and an awesome horsepower to weight ratio, about 590 crank thanks to Katech racing engines.

Ate up Sachs curve and played and beat Porsche GT3's, my nemesis at that track.

I am inspired to go back into some form of road racing again with the GT350; however, there are a few things I believe need to be addressed to become truly competitive with the likes of the GT3.

First off, the GT350 weighs a lot, despite a 530HP rating, the car will be heavy attempting to late brake against other lighter cars with equal braking capability. This could induce some form of apprehension against wanting to late brake as you not only try to scrub speed, but the added weight. In a short track, this would cost you time.

The 350r already is on a diet, so why not create a diet for all.

Diet plan for road racing:
1. Remove rear seats, add lightweight roll bar or cross harness.
2. Add carbon fiber hood, when it is available.
3. Add lightweight wheels. Aftermarket really needs to step up. 25 plus pound rims are not considered lightweight, unless 20 inch rolling with 345 in the rears.

Road racing tweeks:
1. Lower car for better center of gravity. 54.5 inch is really high compared to a 49 inch corvette or 51 inch high Porsche. (Aerodynamic drag is increased with a higher car necessitating more horsepower to overcome drag, especially at 110mph or higher track speeds).
2. Replace factory Shelby anti sway bars with factory racing ones. Note the Corvette factory racing T1 racing suspension is about the best for road racing and being able to drive on the street in a corvette. Not sure if Ford factory racing has similar parts as the Corvette T1 racing suspension which included adjustable end links.

Power adders:
1. Cold air intake
2. Tune
3. Head, cam, throttle body, intake etc.

Tires:
1. Only one, Cup tires

I realize that their are some folks who do road raccing in here; however, my experience at Hockenhime against any Mustang was that they lacked the braking and acceleration (horsepower to weight ratio again) to be really competitive against other cars such as M3's, Porsches, or Corvettes.

That being said, I am excited to put my Shelby in a diet with some additional mods to make it more competitive against our cars I already know the perfroamce parameters for. I have owned several M3's and M Roadsters, 4 corvettes (2 Z06), and now 2015 Mustang PP, well, the wife's, haha.

I look forward to hearing back from the Ford racing community as I learn new curves and have fun in the Shelby GT350.

My wife bought me free track lessons at summit point where I will be able to get to know the car more before I go big time.

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[aguilar310]

Why not order one with the Track Pack if your going to be tracking it? Or an "R", possibly because you couldn't find one?? Either way sounds pretty awesome what you have planned. Good Luck and have fun. And please post pictures and videos throughout the process.

 

[Voodooo]

I agree with you on the weight issues, The R already kicks the Z28 ass and not far off from the vett. The 5.2 voodoo already has CNC ported heads from the factory and the cams are already 14mm and ford said the cams are as big as your going to get in a 4 valve head. It also has a CAI stock although it's proven JLT is better. But my thoughts is that CAI gain could also be from the better air filter. When I talked to forgeline about their GA1R open lug they told me the 11x19 is 20 pounds. That's light for a aluminum wheel that size. I have a track pack GT350 and I'm very pleased with the car and I'll put it up against any car you mentioned.

 

[nastang87xx]

Better check your local track rules on roll bars. Some tracks don't allow harness bars; they would have to be full cages and harness mounts. With that said, define "lightweight" because cages and bars add weight fast even if they're tube chromoly. All the weight you ditched from removing the rear seats will be added right back on.

Carbon hood, 10 - 12lbs savings. Big whoop. But if you have the cash to burn, sure. It is weight.

25lbs ain't bad for say a 19 x 12 wheel. Want 22lbs? Enjoy a $1000 price tag per corner, BARE minimum. CCW, COR, Forgeline, TrueForge...all will be at least that and up. Forgeline and COR will definitely be in the mid to upper 1K's. TrueForge will be lower 1K's.

Don't dick with the springs. And lower does not mean better. Do you really think you'll feel a difference even if you could get 1" lower? Doubt it. Show me the track times. The MagRide dampers is what makes the suspension shine.

Comparing the Stingray suspension to a Mustang suspension is a moot point. Also note that the new Stingray is hardly a lightweight. A 1LT, Z51, MagRide, NPP car weighs in at 3420. A 1LT no optioned 'Ray weighs a pube hair under 3300.

This car is set up quite well from the factory. It's one of those few where you probably shouldn't be messing with crap until it is proven 1000 times over.

And about your weight savings plan? You really only saved yourself 50'ish lbs. Consider your cost to benefit ratio. Wheels though will most likely provide the most benefit and that's more of a no brainer.

More concerning, you've talked about road racing tweaks and yet you haven't mentioned anything about bushings, toe rods, or link supports.


Race it a few times first, find your dispositions, driver mod yourself, THEN figure out what needs to be tweaked. I think you're a little premature in your strategy.

 

[Stuntman]

Brakes are fine. Carbon hood, trunk, lightweight battery.

 

[Voodooo]

The shelbys already have a light weight battery. Hell if you want light weight may as well ditch the weight where it counts the most. In the middle. Go all out and get carbon fiber doors and seats. But be prepared for fitment and quality issues. I agree with Nastang, you never mentioned anything about bushings/bearings toe links and vertical links or cradle bushings. Check out cortex for the front and rear control arm bearings and also BMR toe links and vertical links and also bushings and bearings.

 

[bpracer]

Better check your local track rules on roll bars. Some tracks don't allow harness bars; they would have to be full cages and harness mounts. With that said, define "lightweight" because cages and bars add weight fast even if they're tube chromoly. All the weight you ditched from removing the rear seats will be added right back on.

Carbon hood, 10 - 12lbs savings. Big whoop. But if you have the cash to burn, sure. It is weight.

25lbs ain't bad for say a 19 x 12 wheel. Want 22lbs? Enjoy a $1000 price tag per corner, BARE minimum. CCW, COR, Forgeline, TrueForge...all will be at least that and up. Forgeline and COR will definitely be in the mid to upper 1K's. TrueForge will be lower 1K's.

Don't dick with the springs. And lower does not mean better. Do you really think you'll feel a difference even if you could get 1" lower? Doubt it. Show me the track times. The MagRide dampers is what makes the suspension shine.

Comparing the Stingray suspension to a Mustang suspension is a moot point. Also note that the new Stingray is hardly a lightweight. A 1LT, Z51, MagRide, NPP car weighs in at 3420. A 1LT no optioned 'Ray weighs a pub hair under 3300.

This car is set up quite well from the factory. It's one of those few where you probably shouldn't be messing with crap until it is proven 1000 times over.

And about your weight savings plan? You really only saved yourself 50'ish lbs. Consider your cost to benefit ratio. Wheels though will most likely provide the most benefit and that's more of a no brainer.

More concerning, you've talked about road racing tweaks and yet you haven't mentioned anything about bushings, toe rods, or link supports.


Race it a few times first, find your dispositions, driver mod yourself, THEN figure out what needs to be tweaked. I think you're a little premature in your strategy.

What he said. Sounds like you are wanting to do track day events, not "racing". Racing is a whole other realm of cost with needed and regulated modifications.

If I was going to "race" one of these cars, I'd by the base model and put high end coil-overs under it. If you want a dual purpose track day/street car, change your order to a track pack.

 

[nastang87xx]

Thanks dudes!

Here, I'll help you (OP) out with the starters: caster camber plates and big ol' set of brass coconuts. With the hairs. Set full caster, -2.5 camber, put your foot down, and hold on. Unlike the 1LT in the C7 or the LS6 in the C5 Z06, this engine doesn't fall on its face 1000 RPM from redline.

Once you've gotten the hang of it and can hit your apex points as second nature, find out why your oversteering/understeering to correct the balance. Lose 50lbs from car. Add tires. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[autobahnGT350]

Thanks all,.

Yes, it will be a dual purpose car with a good focus on tracking; not necessarily full on racing, well, at least no yet.

I opted for tech pack because I have to have my heated cooled seats, navi, and Sync 3. Track does not do offer that for me, nor do I wish to mess with things like that afterwards, it was a pain the @sss in my corvette. I could always add coolers as needed after I know what temperature extremes I experience at the track.

Let's just say it will be more than just a hobby but not quite full time racing.

With regards to a lighter car versus a heavy car, not sure why that it is not a valid point concerning performance if power, braking, and driver skills are similar. Please clarify why 400 pounds is insignificant concerning road racing against these type of cars. I am not entirely convinced that the magneride, though excellent, is not the end all panacea for this car.

I like that are some options for modifying the suspension such as in the corvette T1 racing parts.

If I have to throw money at the car to make it feel the way I want to, so be it. I know I will definitely drive the heck out of it for a while to learn its limits, temperature ranges, brake scrubbing characteristic, handling, body roll, etc.

In Germany we could use a harness bar for amateur racing at Hockenheim. I am sure I will figure out what I can use here in the states to have fun at the track.

Additionally, this will be my first new Mustang since I bought a 1967 fastback GT before I entered the Army in 82. I am still kicking myself for selling it.

I look forward to partaking in the Ford Mustang community once again. Thanks for the information.

 

[autobahnGT350]

Thanks dudes!

Here, I'll help you (OP) out with the starters: caster camber plates and big ol' set of brass coconuts. With the hairs. Set full caster, -2.5 camber, put your foot down, and hold on. Unlike the 1LT in the C7 or the LS6 in the C5 Z06, this engine doesn't fall on its face 1000 RPM from redline.

Once you've gotten the hang of it and can hit your apex points as second nature, find out why your oversteering/understeering to correct the balance. Lose 50lbs from car. Add tires. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Sounds like fun. It will definitely take a few laps to build up the courage to do all that. Will probably lose 50 pounds from sweating.

Has anyone with a new GT350 been to a track yet? I read Bossings journey and from what he wrote is exactly why I asked the original questions. I realize that he stated he did not use track mode, but I opined from his report that it is plausible that a weight savings would be good for this car.

Cant wait to have some fun.

 

[mattlqx]

I like the enthusiasm but I think people would a far better served getting their cars, driving them and THEN figuring out what they would like to change instead of trying to engineer vapor. Slow down, enjoy it for 10 seconds before reaching for the ratchet.

 

[krt22]

+1, I'd spend the first couple grand on safety equipment, track time, and tires. The driver mod is the most important one.

 

[chief135smitty]

+1, I'd spend the first couple grand on safety equipment, track time, and tires. The driver mod is the most important one.

1st couple grand will get you the tires anyway!

 

[Grimace427]

Welcome from another NoVA member! I agree with the guys here in that wait to mod the car after you've driven/tracked the car for a while. Only mod I'd consider right off the bat would be wheels.

Additionally, this will be my first new Mustang since I bought a 1967 fastback GT before I entered the Army in 82. I am still kicking myself for selling it.

I have a '67 Fastback semi-restored sitting in my parent's garage right now. Might be forced to sell it due to not having any space to store it and my parents want their garage back.:(

 

[Grimace427]

Hell if you want light weight may as well ditch the weight where it counts the most. In the middle.

I was under the impression that removing the weight from the ends of the vehicle yields better results due to the reduction in the polar moment of inertia. You would get better turn-in and mid corner balance if you removed the weight from the outer edges of the vehicle. Racers who add ballast to meet weight minimums add the weight in the passenger seat area(where rules allow of course) to keep the weight as centralized as possible.

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