replacement bushings vs support kits

[Coaster]

As for the color, unfortunately we do not offer black. Just Red.

If someone sees these once installed your car is either on a lift or you really did something wrong.

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[mikeyjobu]

I was just thinking that I may want it to be a little stealthy -- in case I need to go to a dickish dealer for a warranty claim -- but if I do everything I want, I'd be screwed anyway -- unless I go back to my shop and undo all my mods. With some road grime, I doubt anyone would bat an eye. Off topic: WTF is Prince doing dying?

 

[Coaster]

I was just thinking that I may want it to be a little stealthy -- in case I need to go to a dickish dealer for a warranty claim -- but if I do everything I want, I'd be screwed anyway -- unless I go back to my shop and undo all my mods. With some road grime, I doubt anyone would bat an eye. Off topic: WTF is Prince doing dying?

If they are looking at issues in the rear they will notice any of the kits. Not much to go wrong back there though really.

 

[mikeyjobu]

You think? I don't think they look similar at all. lol

As for the color, unfortunately we do not offer black. Just Red.

:shrug:

Are the inserts in yours aluminum? The Energy Suspension ones look like they may be heat-treated steel.

 

[BMR Tech]

Ours are billet aluminum, yes.

They are designed specifically for this application, to ensure the poly has the proper wall thickness and that the bolt is centered snug, AND most importantly...that the OD exceeds the ID of the hole in the chassis.

We discovered early on that the OEM threads are recessed, and this can cause issues with a sleeve OD smaller than ours. We had these pieces designed and in testing before anyone, so of course we were able to thoroughly improve upon them before shipping so many out the door.

Here is our sleeve:

As you will see, the pictured end is the lower side that the bolt enters into.

To show how tight the bolt fits, you can see the relief we machine into the sleeve to clear the knurling on the OEM bolts.

As for the Energy sleeves, they are likely just steel that has a zinc coating to prevent corrosion. Just like most companies use on many items with a non bonded bolt sleeve. There is nothing wrong with that, at all. Of course, I am bias to a larger OD sleeve with a smaller ID for a better/more snug fit. ;)

 

[VinnAY]

Like everyone, I want to reduce wheel hop (and other things) with my car.
I'm wondering what the delta in price between doing full-on replacement bushings versus doing a cradle support or lockout type of solution would be. It seems like the lockout type of thing lends itself to more of a DIY project, whereas a lockout kit might require dropping the whole cradle out to press in the new bushings. This is what I think I want for my personal stage 1 -- wishlist from LMR:


I realize this isn't all suspension related. It's going to remain a street car, so delrin or aluminum like in the cradle from Ford are totally out. I also don't have a place to do my own work (condo association rules). I feel like it might be worth extra money to get the bushings in rather than put a support kit on for rubber bushings that will eventually fail anyway -- thoughts?

It really just amounts to how invasive your goals and desires are. There's plenty of easy bolt-on's and certainly done with just one or two pieces off your list tham the whole list. My experience with "support" types...Steeda IRS and Diff Bushings and IRS Brace...all easily installed, all easily removal and none of it was invasive, or extensive installation. You start talking about replacement bushings and your costs/time/labor just went way way up...there's more than one way to skin this cat; wheel hop. Add in the face you're likely paying someone to install everything since you have no space to do it otherwise.

 

[mikeyjobu]

Ours are billet aluminum, yes.

They are designed specifically for this application, to ensure the poly has the proper wall thickness and that the bolt is centered snug, AND most importantly...that the OD exceeds the ID of the hole in the chassis.

We discovered early on that the OEM threads are recessed, and this can cause issues with a sleeve OD smaller than ours. We had these pieces designed and in testing before anyone, so of course we were able to thoroughly improve upon them before shipping so many out the door.

Here is our sleeve:



As you will see, the pictured end is the lower side that the bolt enters into.

To show how tight the bolt fits, you can see the relief we machine into the sleeve to clear the knurling on the OEM bolts.

As for the Energy sleeves, they are likely just steel that has a zinc coating to prevent corrosion. Just like most companies use on many items with a non bonded bolt sleeve. There is nothing wrong with that, at all. Of course, I am bias to a larger OD sleeve with a smaller ID for a better/more snug fit. ;)

Would you say that the ES part may have more polyurethane in it, possibly allowing more deflection than yours? You've got beautiful pieces, and a lot of passion for what you're doing -- that shows. It seems like there is a continuum where there's a line you can draw with increased NVH on one side, and more deflection on the other. I'm starting to think that the ES part, and yours are very close to one another, but that yours may be more on the lower deflection side (with a slightly higher increase in NVH) than the ES part?

 

[BMR Tech]

You would need to know more detail.

Like, what the durometer is, what the specifics of the compound are, etc.

Then you have the fact that a thinner walled sleeve could actually create more NVH, due to the fact that the clamping force is lessened (in comparison to a thicker sleeve)

This is why you will notice Ford uses a thin sleeve...but utilizes serrations on the top of the sleeve to "dig" into the metal chassis, which prevents metal rub and excessive noise. One thing is certain, our sleeves will not move against the chassis.

Our first design was actually pretty similar to the ES kit...except our OD of the sleeves were actually smaller than theirs. I did not notice any increase in NVH when going form the smaller sleeve to the larger sleeve.

For reference, here is our previous design:

As for the ES part containing more Poly - I am not sure. The OD of their sleeves may be the same as ours. Our sleeve is about 1.50" OD.

 

[mikeyjobu]

It really just amounts to how invasive your goals and desires are. There's plenty of easy bolt-on's and certainly done with just one or two pieces off your list tham the whole list. My experience with "support" types...Steeda IRS and Diff Bushings and IRS Brace...all easily installed, all easily removal and none of it was invasive, or extensive installation. You start talking about replacement bushings and your costs/time/labor just went way way up...there's more than one way to skin this cat; wheel hop. Add in the face you're likely paying someone to install everything since you have no space to do it otherwise.

Yes -- the labor is something I want to factor in -- but if it costs me $1000 more to get the right parts in, it would be worth it to me versus getting a less elegant, bandaid-ish fix. That said, there's a limit to how much I'll pay -- I had been thinking BK055, FRPP knuckle to toe bushings, and the CB005B -- then I thought maybe there's a more elegant way to get it done...

 

[theman]

This is what I think I want for my personal stage 1 -- wishlist from LMR:
2015-2016 Ford Mustang Blowfish Racing Shifter Support Bracket - by Blowfish Racing

#SSB-15-000

2015-2016 Ford Mustang Energy Suspension IRS Subframe Bushing Set Black - by Energy Suspension

#ES-44122G
2015-2016 Ford Mustang Steeda IRS Subframe Alignment Bushing Kit - by Steeda

#ST-5554438

2015-2016 Ford Mustang Energy Suspension IRS Differential Mount Bushing Kit Black - by Energy Suspension

#ES-41139G

2015-2016 Ford Mustang Ford Racing Knuckle To Toe Link Bearing Assembly GT - by Ford Racing

#M5A460M

2011-2016 Ford Mustang Steeda MT-82 Transmission Mount Bushing Insert - by Steeda

#ST-5554037


2015-2016 Ford Mustang 5.0 Ford Racing X-Pipe GT - by Ford Racing

#M5251M8

2015-2016 Ford Mustang BMR Lower Control Arm Spherical Bushings - by BMR Fabrication

#BMR-BK055

2015-2016 Ford Mustang Downforce Wheel Kit - 20x8.5/10 Gloss Black

#WK-00701658S

*MPSS, and a DSS carbon driveshaft

I would swap out a couple things personally aside from switching to BMR's stuff mentioned above. ;)

Instead of the blowfish, I'd go for the lighter and more thorough shifter Steeda tri-ax.

I'd also skip those downforce wheels and go for the 20x10 sve wheels on all fours myself. But if you do the downforce at least go for the 10" all around to get some real meats up front.
https://lmr.com/item/WK-1660121/mustang-gt350-wheel-kit-gloss-black-20x10-1516
All that nice handling/rear-end fixin pushing around a skinny set of fronts is just a shame.

 

[BMR Tech]

And to be completely honest - cradle mount bushings and diff mount bushings pretty much share the NVH gains, or split I should say.

You can do a solid Delrin or Aluminum Cradle mount with no DIFF bushings or inserts and not notice much NVH increase. Once you do the DIFF, then you have a lot of NVH increase.

Ont he flip side, you can do solid aluminum diff and not notice too much NVH increase....then throw a Cradle Mount bushing in and BAM, NVH for days.

 

[mikeyjobu]

I would swap out a couple things personally aside from switching to BMR's stuff mentioned above. ;)

Instead of the blowfish, I'd go for the lighter and more thorough shifter Steeda tri-ax.

I'd also skip those downforce wheels and go for the 20x10 sve wheels on all fours myself. But if you do the downforce at least go for the 10" all around to get some real meats up front.
https://lmr.com/item/WK-1660121/mustang-gt350-wheel-kit-gloss-black-20x10-1516
All that nice handling/rear-end fixin pushing around a skinny set of fronts is just a shame.

All worth considering -- this is just to set the stage for what may come next -- so many ideas already... not to get this all moved to another section or something, but It's either the Blowfish bracket, or maybe the MGW -- and being a street machine, I don't want shorter throws necessarily -- I mostly just want to find the gate every time under load, and have more of a top loader feel to it -- the Steeda looks like a good piece, but it would remain body-mounted... As far as wheels, who says you need just one set? ;)

 

[BMR Tech]

For those reading, I recommend our CB005 Cradle Lockout Kit 100 times out of 100 over a poly cradle bushing kit. ;) Usually when things sound too good to be true, they are. But with the CB005, it really does perform as good and provides less NVH - all with an easier and much quicker install time. ;)

 

[mikeyjobu]

For those reading, I recommend our CB005 Cradle Lockout Kit 100 times out of 100 over a poly cradle bushing kit. ;) Usually when things sound too good to be true, they are. But with the CB005, it really does perform as good and provides less NVH - all with an easier and much quicker install time. ;)

WHAAAAAT!??!?!?!?!:eyebulge: So my first mind was right? Eventually those rubber bushings are going to go though... So you think CB005, FRPP knuckle-to-toe, and your BK055's are THE way to go versus dropping the cradle and replacing all the bushings -- even with yours?

 

[mikeyjobu]

Anyone else here sometimes have the thought "fuck it -- I'm just going to buy a 'vette and be done with this crap"?lol

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