Questioning Gen 2 voodoo reliability

[Angrey]

I think you'll find that most people's experience is that proper tune v proper tune, E85 is significantly safer than pump gasoline. You can verify it's quality (which you can't do with pump gas) and it has significantly more knock resistance and thermal benefits. We can only speculate what caused the failure. E85 does require more fuel to be delivered to remain within proper ratios.

As far as break in goes, the mechanical wearing parts mostly break in in the first few minutes of running the motor. The part(s) that is the longest to wear in are the rings.

To fully seat the rings, many recommend low to mid-range pulls with decent loading from 2k-5k rpms (in 4,5 gear).

For starters, the rings wear more quickly using "conventional" or break in oil, so I'd start with the first oil batch being either a conventional or a dedicated break in oil.

Run it for a few hundred miles, varying the rpms but not flogging it and get some good long full load pulls on it. Swap to synthetic, open the filter to check for anything sinister (it's not uncommon to see babbitt materials in the filter after the first break in cycle).

Fill it with the synthetic of your liking and drive it how you like. Check the filter the next swap and if you're still getting metals in the filter, you should be concerned, but if they've gone away or greatly reduced, you should be good to go.

The other part of breaking in a new "car" is you're heat cycling the gears in the differential and providing engagements on the clutch for bedding it properly. In this case those don't matter so run conventional, get on it WOT up to around 5k a few times each trip out. Swap to full synthetic and let it eat.

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[526 HRSE]

I wouldn't be concerned both either motor. Maybe the gen1 would be a better motor for you so that you wouldn't take it for granted.

I'm on e85 or pump gas (or any mixture) I've never had an issue with my motor but that doesn't mean anything. Gen1 or gen2, if you run it dry of oil, it will fail just like any motor in any car.

In all of your Internet searches, have you ever found a blow voodoo where the owner took responsibility or is it always Fords fault?

 

[Tenek]

I think you'll find that most people's experience is that proper tune v proper tune, E85 is significantly safer than pump gasoline. You can verify it's quality (which you can't do with pump gas) and it has significantly more knock resistance and thermal benefits. We can only speculate what caused the failure. E85 does require more fuel to be delivered to remain within proper ratios.

As far as break in goes, the mechanical wearing parts mostly break in in the first few minutes of running the motor. The part(s) that is the longest to wear in are the rings.

To fully seat the rings, many recommend low to mid-range pulls with decent loading from 2k-5k rpms (in 4,5 gear).

For starters, the rings wear more quickly using "conventional" or break in oil, so I'd start with the first oil batch being either a conventional or a dedicated break in oil.

Run it for a few hundred miles, varying the rpms but not flogging it and get some good long full load pulls on it. Swap to synthetic, open the filter to check for anything sinister (it's not uncommon to see babbitt materials in the filter after the first break in cycle).

Fill it with the synthetic of your liking and drive it how you like. Check the filter the next swap and if you're still getting metals in the filter, you should be concerned, but if they've gone away or greatly reduced, you should be good to go.

The other part of breaking in a new "car" is you're heat cycling the gears in the differential and providing engagements on the clutch for bedding it properly. In this case those don't matter so run conventional, get on it WOT up to around 5k a few times each trip out. Swap to full synthetic and let it eat.

Thanks for the great tips! They put "break-in" oil in, which I intend to swap for synthetic after 1,000 miles or so. Yeah, I heard that E85 is easier on engines, but after the incident, I'm a bit shaky about trying to tune it again, at least not right now. I have no idea why it happened. The mechanic also refused to do an E85 tune again ).

Speaking about the tune: The car passed the tune already on gas on previous engine, so I'll be driving with that tune enabled. But having the new engine will probably offset a lot of things, so after the break-in, it makes sense to repeat the gas tune, right?

 

[Angrey]

Thanks for the great tips! They put "break-in" oil in, which I intend to swap for synthetic after 1,000 miles or so. Yeah, I heard that E85 is easier on engines, but after the incident, I'm a bit shaky about trying to tune it again, at least not right now. I have no idea why it happened. The mechanic also refused to do an E85 tune again ).

Speaking about the tune: The car passed the tune already on gas on previous engine, so I'll be driving with that tune enabled. But having the new engine will probably offset a lot of things, so after the break-in, it makes sense to repeat the gas tune, right?

There's too much information missing, but any tuner that would be willing to tune on 93 but not on E85 seems suspect.

No telling what caused your engine failure, but rest assured, things being equal, an E85 tune (tuned for say E70) is going to be MUCH safer at the same power level than a pump gasoline tune. Most people take advantage of the additional power and torque that E85 provides via knock resistance and additional timing so even running it out to equivalent borderline knock and corresponding AFR, it'll still be safer because you can test and verify the quality of the fuel each fill up. With 93, you're relying on all sorts of potential failure points to ensure you're getting true 93 rated fuel. You just won't know (typically until it's too late). Only takes a greedy gas station owner, an absent minded delivery driver, etc.

The biggest drawbacks of E85 are the range, the availability and depending on how wild you go, the additional cost of upsizing the fuel system components.

But make no mistake, at 12:1 compression, E85 is much safer than pump gasoline (all relevant things being equivalent).

 

[Tenek]

But make no mistake, at 12:1 compression, E85 is much safer than pump gasoline (all relevant things being equivalent).

I hear you. I think the mechanic place (at least the management) just wants to return the car to me without any "extra" steps. The car is fully E85 capable with upgraded fuel injectors and other components. So, I'll just pick up the car and decide if I'm going to tune it with E85 after the break-in period. I might consider a different place for the tune, or even doing it myself, but I would prefer a professional to handle it. If anyone can recommend a place around Chicago, please let me know. Thanks.

 

[MAGS1]

I hear you. I think the mechanic place (at least the management) just wants to return the car to me without any "extra" steps. The car is fully E85 capable with upgraded fuel injectors and other components. So, I'll just pick up the car and decide if I'm going to tune it with E85 after the break-in period. I might consider a different place for the tune, or even doing it myself, but I would prefer a professional to handle it. If anyone can recommend a place around Chicago, please let me know. Thanks.

Talk to Wengerd. They’re on the forum. Lot of people seem to like them. If you want a shop to talk to, talk to Geared Up Motorsports in New Lenox or DMark Performance in Arlington Heights. Both are Mustang specialists and get rave reviews in the Chicagoland Mustang Club group (group is on Facebook if you’re on Facebook).

 

[mavisky]

Not willing to tune on E85 sounds a lot like, I don't have a canned tune for that so not willing to develop one and you're just going to get a 91/93 octane tune that's more or less specific to your car.

 

[Tenek]

Hey guys, I took my supercharged gt350 back home after engine swap. And have a few observations: first of all, the car runs quieter and more smoothly on idle. There's no smell, and the exhaust is much cleaner, which is positive.

However, the check engine light got on. The mechanic said it's a "tuning thing." As far as I understood, the original tune performed on the old engine isn't happy with the new setup. It's showing "system too lean" in two banks and "misfire on startup." Additionally, I've noticed quite strong bucking at RPMs lower than 2k.

I was planning to take the car on back roads tomorrow to break in the engine, but given these issues, I think it might not be safe. I should probably hold off on driving the car and maybe talk to Lund Racing to see if they can adjust or disable the tune for the break-in period.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Angrey]

Hey guys, I took my supercharged gt350 back home after engine swap. And have a few observations: first of all, the car runs quieter and more smoothly on idle. There's no smell, and the exhaust is much cleaner, which is positive.

However, the check engine light got on. The mechanic said it's a "tuning thing." As far as I understood, the original tune performed on the old engine isn't happy with the new setup. It's showing "system too lean" in two banks and "misfire on startup." Additionally, I've noticed quite strong bucking at RPMs lower than 2k.

I was planning to take the car on back roads tomorrow to break in the engine, but given these issues, I think it might not be safe. I should probably hold off on driving the car and maybe talk to Lund Racing to see if they can adjust or disable the tune for the break-in period.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

So you installed a blower and didn't load a tune revised for it?

 

[Tenek]

So you installed a blower and didn't load a tune revised for it?

Current tune is from the same blower but the old engine. I guess the new engine swap introduced a lot of offsets, making the previous tune no longer suitable. And, I can't get a proper new tune before I break in the engine, but I'm not sure if it is safe to drive the car with the wrong tune too... Maybe the Lund Racing folks can help me with a mild tune for the break-in period, and we can re-tune it later when the engine is ready. I just don't want to damage the new engine... I will not drive the car before I have a plan. The mechanic place just wanted me to take the car to wash their hands of it...

PS: this is all assuming engine swap was done appropriately

 

[NPTR]

Just my two cents but this really should be a separate thread if you want proper attention and focus on these problems. They’re not related to general voodoo reliability given the heavy mods done to you car, and you’re asking questions really limited in scope to your application, so my gut is to start a new thread and list out everything you want to discuss and you’ll get more eyeballs on it, and this thread can remain more focused on general reliability. Just my gut, ignore if folks disagree.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

The blower section would be better for this. That said, I wouldn’t run that car at all if you’re showing a lean condition. You’re headed for another swap if that goes sideways. Lean can go bad real quick. Especially with an fi setup.

Current tune is from the same blower but the old engine. I guess the new engine swap introduced a lot of offsets, making the previous tune no longer suitable. And, I can't get a proper new tune before I break in the engine, but I'm not sure if it is safe to drive the car with the wrong tune too... Maybe the Lund Racing folks can help me with a mild tune for the break-in period, and we can re-tune it later when the engine is ready. I just don't want to damage the new engine... I will not drive the car before I have a plan. The mechanic place just wanted me to take the car to wash their hands of it...

PS: this is all assuming engine swap was done appropriately

 

[MAGS1]

Current tune is from the same blower but the old engine. I guess the new engine swap introduced a lot of offsets, making the previous tune no longer suitable. And, I can't get a proper new tune before I break in the engine, but I'm not sure if it is safe to drive the car with the wrong tune too... Maybe the Lund Racing folks can help me with a mild tune for the break-in period, and we can re-tune it later when the engine is ready. I just don't want to damage the new engine... I will not drive the car before I have a plan. The mechanic place just wanted me to take the car to wash their hands of it...

PS: this is all assuming engine swap was done appropriately

Agree with others, the FI section has a lot of folks with good info. That said, if you want to talk to someone local, Brandon Hammond is the owner of Geared Up Motorsports in New Lenox. Don’t recall if their shop is open today (the CMC season opening event is this morning, he might be there) but he could at least get you going in the right direction.

 

[Tenek]

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback and recommendations. I started a new thread here: :
Issues with 2019 GT350 (Whipple) after engine swap | 2015+ S550 Mustang Forum (GT, EcoBoost, GT350, GT500, Bullitt, Mach 1) - Mustang6G.com

Brandon Hammond is the owner of Geared Up Motorsports in New Lenox.

I sent him an email ([email protected]), but he said he would have to pass on that.

Talk to Wengerd. They’re on the forum.

He got back to me, and he seems to be willing to help me with his tune. Maybe I should switch to his tune and just take the car to him?

 

[MAGS1]

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback and recommendations. I started a new thread here: :
Issues with 2019 GT350 (Whipple) after engine swap | 2015+ S550 Mustang Forum (GT, EcoBoost, GT350, GT500, Bullitt, Mach 1) - Mustang6G.com


I sent him an email ([email protected]), but he said he would have to pass on that.



He got back to me, and he seems to be willing to help me with his tune. Maybe I should switch to his tune and just take the car to him?

Interesting that Brandon passed. I’m sure he has his reasons.

With regards to Wengerd, yeah I’d keep talking to him. The folks in the FI section that are tuned by him can also give you some feedback but I’ve not seen anything negative about him yet.

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