Purported "official" 2015 Mustang weight specs - via dealer manual source book

[thePill]

I had no idea the caliper of the standard equipment offered. Also Mitch, these are still US standard curb weights.

The standard seats took away a lot of weight saved. There is no possible way they managed such a small increase without MAJOR structural loss.

After I was made aware of the US vs. EU standard, I specifically said I can see a 3700lbs GT in US Standards. That's what we got...

Now, let's eliminate the US weights and go off the EU standard before we try and say it was wrong. The M4 gained 230lbs, not really a reason the Mustang didn't gain some as well.

A lot if people, myself included, just cannot estimate the weight of popular options. Recaro's alone could get that 3704 down to Boss 302 levels without even factoring in the other included options.

That's like saying the M4 really weighs 3530lbs. Sure, when it's loaded up. I'm concerned with other areas as I assume weight watchers are too... Racing...

I know the structures lighter, I could care less about popular option weights.

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[Clink]

Ha more good news for Chevy, GM, and Camaro owners....

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[thePill]

As I said, compare US Standard to EU Standards when available. They will likely be much lower as outlined on Bimmer.

With the new standards, I really don't know what the Fusions 3475lbs contains. It could be all standard for all anyone knows.

On the scale, a real scale... I bet you a Premium is a lot closer to 3500lbs. I'm certainly not counting a spare tire.

 

[Travbedaman]

If the 5.0 is only about a hundred pounds heavier, thats fine by me. Ive been driving a 2001 gt with basic bolts ons for 11 years. This new car is going to be such a night and day difference in every way. Cannot wait.

 

[Cmycobrafly]

Hahah

He literally just ignored you. I am a bit disappointed he didn't just admit he was wrong, too. Most people seem to ignore him anymore.

Hahaha most people, one of the only reason I joined was I always have lurked but never joined forum but omg when someone is wrong or bends things there way everytime like with the whole how such a big deal cage is at ring but when magazine test boss against z28 boss had a cage read hotrod magazine. But it was never mentioned by him when he brags up about how good and close boss is compared to z28 don't get me wrong I am a mustang guy but dang. He directly said it would not weigh more than a fusion awd. Read his post from other thread he back tracks so much it is sickening. Magazines r going to test a car not low optioned I will put money on that

 

[OppoLock]

You know what's funny? The E92 M3 has a US curb just north of 3,700 pounds.

I'd be more than content if the S550 offers a driving experience with similar composure to that car. Lap times be damned, I just want it to be fun and adjustable.

 

[scottpe]

Anyone know if the "33% options rule" for the US weight specifications is broken down by trim level and transmission?

The reason I ask is because I'm perplexed that the Auto GT is only 23lbs heavier than the manual. That got me wondering... could Ford be assuming that at least 33% of the manual equipped GTs will be optioned with the Performance Package, and thus that weight figure is based on a manual equipped as such?

Given the type of customer that usually opts for a manual on a performance car these days, seems conceivable that at least 33% of manual GTs would be optioned with the PP, especially considering the only way to get a GT with the Performance Package is with a manual transmission (outside of the Limited Edition).

The 6R80 is around 75lbs heavier than the manual Getrag, correct? Some here have estimated that the PP might add around 50lbs, which I agree with. Do the math and there's your 23lb difference between the two.

Just a theory...

 

[HGFireHazard]

Anyone know if the "33% options rule" for the US weight specifications is broken down by trim level and transmission?

The reason I ask is because I'm perplexed that the Auto GT is only 23lbs heavier than the manual. That got me wondering... could Ford be assuming that at least 33% of the manual equipped GTs will be optioned with the Performance Package, and thus that weight figure is based on a manual equipped as such?

Given the type of customer that usually opts for a manual on a performance car these days, seems conceivable that at least 33% of manual GTs would be optioned with the PP.

The 6R80 is around 75lbs heavier than the manual Getrag, correct? Some here have estimated that the PP might add around 50lbs, which I agree with. Do the math and there's your 23lb difference between the two.

Just a theory...

I don't have any idea, but I will say the more this is discussed I think we really need some context with these numbers before we make judgement. If we were to assume that a lot of standard features are included in these weights or possibly the Premium packages that could actually be a lot of weight loss. The potential that the GT curb weight is actually GT Premium with PP coming in at 3700 is incredibly encouraging. I wonder if we can find these types of statistics on purchased vehicles from the 13/14 model years.

 

[Hashbrownn]

I'm pretty happy with the weight of 2015, if it is anywhere near the OPs post. I don't care what the Chevy guys are doing and what the new Camaro "may" be. I will NEVER buy another Chevy. Chevy cars = Lemon, Dealerships = Horrible, and I don't know of enough negative words to describe their customer service. Why are people so bent out of shape about the weight of the Mustang? It met the engineers' goal and will out perform BOSS302. Use exotic materials to reduce weight? Are you sure we're talking about the same $30-40k car? I'm sure Ford could have used all the exotic material they wanted, if they wanted to charge $60k+ and compete with the C7.

Worried about straight line performance? We knew that 2015 focused on being a better handling sports car, not a straight line muscle car. That doesn't mean that it will be slower than the 2014. I'm just saying that the focus has shifted.

I cannot wait to test drive the car when it is available on the lot. I am super excited. Assumption of what the car may or may not be by the specs on the paper, before test drive, to me is asinine.

 

[scottpe]

I don't have any idea, but I will say the more this is discussed I think we really need some context with these numbers before we make judgement. If we were to assume that a lot of standard features are included in these weights or possibly the Premium packages that could actually be a lot of weight loss. The potential that the GT curb weight is actually GT Premium with PP coming in at 3700 is incredibly encouraging.

I agree that some context is extremely important here. Definitely not safe to jump to any conclusions about what exactly these weights mean yet.

As you said, the possibility that these weights (especially for the GT) represent well optioned cars is encouraging.

 

[thePill]

Hahaha most people, one of the only reason I joined was I always have lurked but never joined forum but omg when someone is wrong or bends things there way everytime like with the whole how such a big deal cage is at ring but when magazine test boss against z28 boss had a cage read hotrod magazine. But it was never mentioned by him when he brags up about how good and close boss is compared to z28 don't get me wrong I am a mustang guy but dang. He directly said it would not weigh more than a fusion awd. Read his post from other thread he back tracks so much it is sickening. Magazines r going to test a car not low optioned I will put money on that

Based on new US Curb Standards, we can't even compare US Curb weight between vehicles. I'm sorry, I just didn't learn about these changes until a few days ago.i don't think base Fusions have Driver/Passenger Heated/Cooled 6 Way adjustable standard seats.

I have no idea what Ford considers "popular" nor do I know the weights of those options. Steeda said 200-300lbs, R&T said 175lbs.


AFTER I learned about the changes, I worked backwards to calculate weight. Guess what number I came up with, exactly 3700lbs (it's on the Steeda thread) Edit: Damn, I posted 3800lbs... I don't know where I got the extra 100lbs.

Most here tried to convince me that 200-300lbs on top of the old 3820 was from IRS and new roof crush standards. So, let's look at it this way...

The GT gained 87lbs right? That's 87lbs from the Premium Brembo GT's 3620lbs using the old standard. Are you trying to say the GT gained that 87lbs from new IRS, New Roof Standards, Knee Airbag, the Electric Seats, Mirror heaters, larger rear brakes and very possibly a spare tire and jack? I hope not...

Significant weight came out of the structure to compensate for these new standards. That's not even considering other possible options included.

As I said, the structure itself has lost a lot of weight compared to the S197. Once I recalculated using possible popular option weights, my hopeful 3380-3401 went up to 3475-3500lbs per EU Standards. Might be another 50-70lbs for seats I wasn't aware if until today. Get Recaro's and save that weight

It isn't over yet and yes, it would make the EB and GT lighter than a base and AWD Fusion. The Bimmer guys had the same discussion 6 months ago and they got a 3300lbs M4 instead of 3530lbs.

I was only 4lbs off the US standards. If I don't get some credit for that, your just not gonna give me credit regardless.

 

[thePill]

Here... The layout of US and EU Curb Weights.

I have been asked (by swamp2) to do a write up on the different standards for curb weights. There are a lot of discussions related to the weight of cars and how to compare EU and US weights (Apart from lbs to kg I mean ).

As this is a work in progress, it might not have all relevant info at the moment, there might be inaccuracies or contradictions. I welcome any constructive input to make this info as accurate, reliable and useful as possible

Summary:

Weight standards currently used by BMW and other German/European brands on their official web sites.

EU/Germany:
1. Leergewicht EU ( Car with 90% fuel, 68kg driver, 7kg luggage (75kg). Latest EU definition uses only driver @ 75kg )
2. Leergewicht DIN ( Car with 90% fuel, no driver, no luggage )

USA:
1. Curb weight ( Inconsistent reporting, with or without driver, unknown and inconsistent equipment level ).

Recommendation:
Use the European standards for apples to apples comparison. For cars that lack European weights, further research is needed to determine what is included in that cars stated US "Curb weight".



Summary of definitions:

US Curb Weight:
Weight of car with fluids and fuel at 100% as well as weight of any option expected to be in more than 33% of vehicles sold. Driver not included in US legal defintion, but usually included in manufacturers public figures.

EU Kerb Weight/Leergewicht EG:


Latest EU definition of "mass in running order" (curb weight) according to 1230/2012/EEC:
"the mass of the vehicle, with its fuel tank(s) filled to at least 90 % of its or their capacity/ies, including the mass of the driver, of the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard equipment in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork, the cabin, the coupling and the spare wheel(s) as well as the tools"

Previous EU definition of mass of the vehicle:
Weight of car with fluids at 100% and fuel at 90%. Driver included in type approval and official documentation. However the defintion of "Mass of the vehicle" does not include driver, but the EU-Directive defines that the weight of the driver (75kg) shall be included in type approval applications. The weight is given for the base vehicle with no options mandatory for the kerb weight.

DIN/ISO Kerb Weight/Leergewicht DIN:
DIN curb weight consists of vehicle, including 90% of fuel, driver, tool kit, warning triangle and spare tire (when fitted). Basically similar to EU curb weight definition. But as the old DIN weights did not include driver, I guess that when there is a reference from someone such as BMW, or others, to a "DIN curb weight" it can be assumed that it is without driver.
As pointed out by Solstice in his Porsche weight examples; Leergewicht DIN is used when the curb weight without driver is stated.
In German magazines the 1495-1500kg curb weight of the F8x is referred to as the DIN weight, further indicating that manufacturers use Leergewicht DIN as the standard for curb weight without driver.


A few real life examples:

Example 1: E92 M3
US curb weight: 3704lbs/1681kg
EU curb weight: 1655kg/1675kg (M6/DCT)

Here we can see that the US and EU weight doesn't match each other and there is a good reason why they don't.

EU weight of 1675kg includes DCT as that is stated in the BMW info, 1655kg is with the manual 6-speed. According to US legislation curb weight shall include options that is expected to be installed in at least 33% of vehicles sold.

That means added weight. And US fuel level is 100% as opposed to EU 90%, which adds 6,3l of fuel in the E92. So, if we take the EU 1655kg weight as a base (since that is the lightest known version of the std. E92 M3), the following makes the US weight end up at 1681kg:
1655kg
+ 20kg DCT
+ 4,5kg Fuel (extra 6,3l of fuel at 0,711kg/l)
+ 1,5kg Miscelaneous options
1681kg US curb weight


Example 2: F15 X5 and Cayenne

If we take the new X5 X-drive 35i for example these are the reported weights:
bmwusa.com: 2125kg / 4680 lbs Curb weight
bmw.de: 2030kg / 4475 lbs Leergewicht DIN
bmw.de 2105kg / 4640 lbs Leergewicht EG

Here the 40 lbs US curb weight above Leergewicht EG (4680 vs 4640lbs) must again be due to the fact that US curb weight shall include optional equipment expected to be sold in more than 33% of the sold vehicles..

Now for comparison let's take the Porsche Cayenne.
porsche.com/usa 1996kg / 4398 lbs Curb weight
porsche.de 1995kg / 4398 lbs Leergewicht DIN
porsche.de 2070kg / 4564 lbs Leergewicht EG

So if you just used the US curb weight you would get that the Cayenne is 4680 - 4398 = 282lbs / 128kg lighter (than the X5).

But look closer and you can see that the Cayenne's US curb weight reported is that of it's Leergewicht DIN (without driver and luggage) while the X5 is (Leergewicht EG + 40 lbs) which includes driver (75kg) and 40lbs optional equipment.

(The Cayenne is specified as a unique model with the tiptronic gearbox and is 35kg heavier than the manual car, which is also one difference between the Cayenne and X5.)

When comparing apples to apples the real difference is 4475 - 4398 = 77 lbs / 35kg. Which "strangely" also is the exact weight of the Tiptronic version of the Cayenne. So a Tiptronic Cayenne and a X5 35i, with similar transmissions, have the exact same curb weight/leergewicht

I.e US reported curb weight is not consistent but Leergewicht EG and DIN are consistent between these two German brands (just remember to compare comparable models/equipment levels).


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Definitions have been removed from this post, but can be found here:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=49

i myself am not too concerned about real weight loss. There's nothing we can do about new standards. We can do something about the seats. Lets confirm if the EB and GT's weights are base or premium. Try and figure out if the EB and GT's manual weights are Performance Pack. It could explain the weight gains in those two particular transmissions vs. the autos.

 

[thePill]

Based on this new info, even a 2014 Fusion could be lighter in EU standards. I'll see if I can find Mondeo weights IF they reflect the EU standard or not.

 

[Cmycobrafly]

Wow

Based on new US Curb Standards, we can't even compare US Curb weight between vehicles. I'm sorry, I just didn't learn about these changes until a few days ago.i don't think base Fusions have Driver/Passenger Heated/Cooled 6 Way adjustable standard seats.

I have no idea what Ford considers "popular" nor do I know the weights of those options. Steeda said 200-300lbs, R&T said 175lbs.


AFTER I learned about the changes, I worked backwards to calculate weight. Guess what number I came up with, exactly 3700lbs (it's on the Steeda thread) Edit: Damn, I posted 3800lbs... I don't know where I got the extra 100lbs.

Most here tried to convince me that 200-300lbs on top of the old 3820 was from IRS and new roof crush standards. So, let's look at it this way...

The GT gained 87lbs right? That's 87lbs from the Premium Brembo GT's 3620lbs using the old standard. Are you trying to say the GT gained that 87lbs from new IRS, New Roof Standards, Knee Airbag, the Electric Seats, Mirror heaters, larger rear brakes and very possibly a spare tire and jack? I hope not...

Significant weight came out of the structure to compensate for these new standards. That's not even considering other possible options included.

As I said, the structure itself has lost a lot of weight compared to the S197. Once I recalculated using possible popular option weights, my hopeful 3380-3401 went up to 3475-3500lbs per EU Standards. Might be another 50-70lbs for seats I wasn't aware if until today. Get Recaro's and save that weight

It isn't over yet and yes, it would make the EB and GT lighter than a base and AWD Fusion. The Bimmer guys had the same discussion 6 months ago and they got a 3300lbs M4 instead of 3530lbs.

I was only 4lbs off the US standards. If I don't get some credit for that, your just not gonna give me credit regardless.

Now u r comparing eu base weight of mustang to american weight std of awd fusion bottom line average new optioned mustang weighs more than 2014 correct? Don't sit there and tell me how to option it out average as in model mix from factory! Weigh three mustangs off line se options u will find as much as 5 pounds between them does that mean we can use that weight of lightest ones no

 

[scottpe]

As I said, the structure itself has lost a lot of weight compared to the S197.

I give you a lot of credit for your conclusions on the weight savings in the chassis, especially when there were many that posted predictions to the contrary. I think these numbers all but prove you were right. I believe they HAD to have shaved significant pounds from the structure or else the car would have been significantly heavier than these numbers reflect.

Anyway, in contrast to a couple others here, I generally find your posts enlightening and educational. Are you perfect in all your conclusions and predictions? Of course not. Nobody is. But I for one appreciate your contributions here nonetheless... certainly more than some who create an account simply to come in and bash others or promote negativity, for instance.

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