PP vs Non-PP

[NewSVO]

if the PP came in 3:31s I wouldve gotten it, I know i couldve changed the gears but nothing other than the brakes attracted me from the package.

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[Impulsed7]

Ok, lets clear this up.

PP will stop faster because of tires, not brakes. PP brakes will stop the car better under
repeated braking because more surface area.

PP suspension is moderately stiffer than non PP, not much of a difference. 3.55 gearing is not a terribly noticable difference with how torquey the eco is.

 

[Marino]

It's funny how people feel the need to justify their decisions on her by downplaying the opposing. The fact is, the PP has better overal spirited driving performance. The non performance pack gets slightly better mpg and a softer suspension.

I personally drive my cars spiritedly and also take them on the track. I prefer the bigger brakes, stiffer suspension, closer gearing, and a dedicated boost gauge at only $1995.

 

[Marino]

Ok, lets clear this up.

PP will stop faster because of tires, not brakes. PP brakes will stop the car better under
repeated braking because more surface area.

PP suspension is moderately stiffer than non PP, not much of a difference. 3.55 gearing is not a terribly noticable difference with how torquey the eco is.

Brake from 100-0 or even 60-0. You will definitely notice a difference with bigger brakes not just tires. You can't downplay the performance of bigger brakes.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Ok, lets clear this up.

PP will stop faster because of tires, not brakes. PP brakes will stop the car better under
repeated braking because more surface area.

PP suspension is moderately stiffer than non PP, not much of a difference. 3.55 gearing is not a terribly noticable difference with how torquey the eco is.

Agreed. Non-PP brakes can initiate ABS to kick in...that's a tire limitation, not rotor/pad/caliper. If not using the heat holding capacity of the rotors in repeated high speed stops, its dead weight that must not only be translated but also rotated for an average commuter car...ie, a lot of wasted energy to move for no reason.

Those who say the PP suspension is the same as the GTs...if this were the case, the EB should sit quite high in the front...it has to have unique springs. For many, springs and dampers will be swapped anyhow.

Personally, at this point, I'm thinking about a 3.15 geared auto. High torque engines don't need multiplication through the driveline. Low torque, peaky engines do. For a DD/road trip/street car, big torque w/ low gears just means tire spin. No thanks. The 3.55s might be ok if an owner plans to keep their car stock...but this forum isn't for those people, right?

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

You can't downplay the performance of bigger brakes.

Sure can. No advantage on a daily driver and will in fact cost ET if one drag races. Small brakes in many circumstances are better than behemoth brakes. Marketing wants us to believe bigger is always better...not true w/ boobs and def not true w/ brakes.

 

[Marino]

Sure can. No advantage on a daily driver and will in fact cost ET if one drag races. Small brakes in many circumstances are better than behemoth brakes. Marketing wants us to believe bigger is always better...not true w/ boobs and def not true w/ brakes.

I was talking about braking performance. Also the weight difference between the two is negligible and will not affect quarter mile times. If weight is a concern, you'd be better off dieting yourself than opting for smaller brakes. And yes there is an absolute advantage in daily driving. It just depends on how you define daily driving. I define daily driving as a main method of transportation. Daily driving could also include spirited driving not just mpg (why I don't drive a Prius). The only good thing small brakes are good for is drag racing and gas mileage. The base ecoboost brakes aren't light enough to make a difference from the performance package brakes in the quarter mile so that point is moot. You make it sound like the pp brakes are made of giant chunks of lead. The difference is 1 inch on the rotor and 2 pistons on an aluminum caliper. :lol: do you drive with a purse? Beter not! Might lose some ET in the quarter mile. ;)

Now to address performance. A pp pack car will be able to carve canyons better not only because of the tires and suspension, but because it can wait longer to brake and will have less brake fade. That doesn't make the non pp car a bad choice. It's just not the performance oriented choice.

 

[Tamadrummer88]

To be honest, there was no way i would've bought an EcoBoost without the Performance Package.

The biggest thing that sold me on the PP was the brakes. Yes performance and blah blah, but those massive rotors and big calipers just look so mean behind those nice black wheels.

The wheels aren't for most people (hell some of the GT guys don't like the PP wheels on their cars) but i love them. Very nice design and VERY EASY TO CLEAN (compared to my last car)

The suspension is not as stiff as some people play it out to be. I drove an EcoBoost without the PP and i could feel some body roll and it did tend to be a bit floaty on the freeway. With the PP it felt like it cornered flat, an soaked up bumps nicely. It is stiff, but not breaking your teeth stiff.

And the gauges are a nice touch too.

All in all, its a pretty damn good deal for just under $2k. My only question is, if the springs and dampers are not the same units from the GT, then are these sets unique to this car?

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

I was talking about braking performance. Also the weight difference between the two is negligible and will not affect quarter mile times. If weight is a concern, you'd be better off dieting yourself than opting for smaller brakes. And yes there is an absolute advantage in daily driving. It just depends on how you define daily driving. I define daily driving as a main method of transportation. Daily driving could also include spirited driving not just mpg (why I don't drive a Prius). The only good thing small brakes are good for is drag racing and gas mileage. The base ecoboost brakes aren't light enough to make a difference from the performance package brakes in the quarter mile so that point is moot. You make it sound like the pp brakes are made of giant chunks of lead. The difference is 1 inch on the rotor and 2 pistons on an aluminum caliper. :lol: do you drive with a purse? Beter not! Might lose some ET in the quarter mile. ;)

Now to address performance. A pp pack car will be able to carve canyons better not only because of the tires and suspension, but because it can wait longer to brake and will have less brake fade. That doesn't make the non pp car a bad choice. It's just not the performance oriented choice.

You made a blanket statement about bigger brakes. I addressed that. Take a breath...jeez.

 

[SloS14]

And ladders! This morning, on the freeway, a ladder flew off a truck 5 car lengths in front of me. The PP came in handy to brake and swerve (and traction control to keep me straight ahead)

Not to nitpick, but that was stability control that helped out out.

 

[greg hazlett]

Bigger brakes are more rotational mass but I will take that little bit of weight over better stopping power; I read what you guys said about bigger not being better and I agree to a point but fade will be a lot less with the bigger brakes.

IMO 355's are perfect if you are going to upgrade esp with a bigger turbo and the 6R80.

 

[Shanghai Dan]

Brake from 100-0 or even 60-0. You will definitely notice a difference with bigger brakes not just tires. You can't downplay the performance of bigger brakes.

If you can get the ABS to kick in - then bigger brakes won't help, you need better tires. And you can get the ABS to chatter away in the non-PP unit.

PP helps braking in two ways:

1. Bigger brakes for less fade with repeated HEAVY use (not something you're going to see on the street unless you're doing something that should only be done on the track)

2. Bigger tires. More rubber on the road = more stopping power before the tires break loose and ABS kicks in.

No more, no less.

 

[greg hazlett]

So you brake experts are saying there is nothing better about larger surface area/more pistons?

 

[l2frankie]

So you brake experts are saying there is nothing better about larger surface area/more pistons?

I think all these super cars with huge brakes are doing it wrong

 

[SVTFreak]

I think all these super cars with huge brakes are doing it wrong

That's your opinion.

Larger brakes have their place and a person should understand what they will do before dropping the coin on them.

Larger brakes will not decrease stopping distance. Better tires will, better brakes will not. Even the base small ones will lock up tires. That said, tires being equal, base and PP brakes will have same stopping distance.

Larger brakes will allow repeated hard stops or slows from higher mph without (or with less) fade.

If you want to decease stopping distance, put money in tires.

If you want to canyon carve or track day etc, with repeated drag downs, then the larger brakes are for you.

That said, PP cars will see a decrease in stopping distance due to the stickier tires. That is the only reason. The brake upgrade has nothing to do with the one time stop distance.

Now, go do 5 100 mph to 0 stops back to back and the larger brakes will shine.

Again, many (most, I venture) people do not know the difference and think they have to have the big brakes to handle their driving prowess. 99.999% of them would be wrong.

Why do I have PP? 1) cause le came with it and 2) I want it. No justification or bragging about driving prowess needed. I don't need them at all. I just wanted it.

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