oil pan upgrade

[S550Smoke]

Newb question alert!! When should you find it necessary to upgrade your oil pan? I have read that the road race designed oil pans both increase oil capacity as well as keep oil off the crank by blocking slush so im aware of their function but I was just curious how soon I should be concerned about this. I am getting pretty serious in hpde's (as much as my job allows me to anyway). Any experts have some knowledge to share on the matter??

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[ddozier]

Newb question alert!! When should you find it necessary to upgrade your oil pan? I have read that the road race designed oil pans both increase oil capacity as well as keep oil off the crank by blocking slush so im aware of their function but I was just curious how soon I should be concerned about this. I am getting pretty serious in hpde's (as much as my job allows me to anyway). Any experts have some knowledge to share on the matter??

I would say a bigger indicator of when it is definitely needed is based more on the tire choice you have made. As soon as you make the move to R-Comp tires I would consider it time to get the new pan. Once you can get the cornering G's up you really have to worry about oil starvation as oil is pulled away from the pickup at high G turns and under heavy braking.

I have the Moroso road race pan and there pan uses the factory windage tray so I am not sure that it would be any different then the OEM pan for keeping oil off the crank. The traps in the pan are really designed to keep the pickup in oil at all times.

Dave

 

[Brent Dalton]

I don't think there is a need. I don't think a crank scraper is necessary either. I haven't really seen any oil starve issues with the coyote. From personal experience running Hoosier R7's, I haven't experienced any pressure drop so far. It's an issue with some of the chevy LS engines(I run a baffled oil pan, 3 qt accusump, and run a quart over in my LS1).

Here is what kind of G's I saw at Road Atlanta:

 

[S550Smoke]

I read one incident of oil pressure dropping on a course that involved part of a nascar track. He said at the point of transition from the banked nascar track, to the infield there was a sudden drop in pressure. Thats the only circumstance im aware of. I have just switched to nto1's but my next track day isnt for a few weeks which is why i was curious.

 

[ddozier]

My test track is Gateway Motorsports Park and it uses part of a NASCAR banked oval for part of the road course, my car will fuel starve if I run the oval at max speed so I would assume similar forces acting on the oil that are acting on the fuel. Looking at the design of the OEM oil pan my biggest concern would be with extreme braking causing the oil to move forward and expose the oil pickup. This will not likely be a huge issue since the engine will not likely be under full load if you are on the brakes hard and long enough to have it exposed.

I may be overly sensitive to the issue as my last track car was a NSX and they had issues with oil starvation if driven near the limits of the chassis. The cost to rebuild the Acura engine was $25k so the cost of baffleing the oil pan vs building an engine was a simple choice. In the case of the Mustang with the cost of a race pan being under $700 it seems like cheap insurance.

On a side note, Brent it is good to see your 140 top speed at atlanta and your lap times there. I run a 1:40.56 there in my NSX and was worried that the Mustang would be slower there.

Dave

 

[ddozier]

. I just switched to nto1's but my next track day isnt for a few weeks which is why i was curious.

What size NT-01s are you running?

Dave

 

[S550Smoke]

Absolutely correct on the cheap insurance part. Thats pretty much where i was at when i wrote the thread, just wanted to see if i was being to paranoid. I will probably just go ahead and do it for the safer factor. I went with 275/35/18 but i plan on going larger once i see how much clearance i have.

 

[pinero61]

What pans are y'all using?

 

[F0J]

This is on my mind too. I'm (slowly) figuring out brakes+wheels+tires+coilovers and I don't want so much grip that I have to worry about fuel and oil starvation. Though rebuilding those systems isn't *that* big of a deal.

I'm actually impressed the guys running slicks don't have more to complain about.

 

[S550Smoke]

i just ordered the canton road race pan and pickup tube.
https://www.rpmoutlet.com/2015-mustang-gt-canton-oil-pans.htm

I know mmr sells a moroso oil pan at similar cost.

 

[Brent Dalton]

All of us are products of our environment. I have a background with the 93-95 rx7 with the rotary engine. Which can be very unforgiving. One detonation often equals a rebuild. Overheating equals a rebuild. They were known for fuel starving as well. Fortunately, after owning probably 25+ of them over the years and logging lots of miles, I only ever blew up 1 engine at VIR in Feb 2010. The engine had 10000 track miles on it, I had just ran a 45 minute session earlier without issue, then boom. Probably a slight glitch on the coils or injectors.

Anyways, for all the other issues, it never had an oil starve issue. Lots of guys started making aftermarket pans, and lots of guys started having oil starve issues and blowing motors. Product of my environment.

Obviously it is a balancing act between preventing bad things from happening and "if it isn't broke, don't fix it". As we have all moved into the performance driving realm and realized that lots of parts we might have purchased due to Internet buzz and car show crowds were totally unnecessary, etc...

That being said and while there are slight differences in the 11-14 coyote and the 15+, has anyone taken a look under the local NASA American Iron or SCCA racers cars? I spoke to a few AI guys in generalities and oil starve, but not about oil pans or specifics. Anyone spoken to anyone running the oil pans? I know the perception of the oil pans listed above in the LS community and why improved racing makes a good living ;) The other easy place to check would be the pro teams like Kohr, 360R, and Multimatic (even being the 5.2). I've seen too many parts that should work conceptually, but don't in practical application. I'd hate to see some have a problem arise or get worse from an aftermarket product. More then anything, just curious if anyone has 2nd hand information from the real racers on oil starve and mitigation. Either way, kudos to you guys for trying it out and being the pioneers. Look forward to your feedback.

 

[S550Smoke]

well, not to be rude but I wouldn't really consider an oil pan an internet hype or a car show bragging right. I also upgraded the oil pump gear and crank shaft sprocket for safety reasons even though ive never personally heard of anyone blowing a motor to one of those failures but wanted the (hopefully true) security they are said to offer. so I guess if that makes me gullible, It is what it is. This is literally the only form of social media I personally use and I live in an area where the closest vehicle mod you will come across is probably a 24" chrome rim or a base system that will shake a trunk off neither being something I could care less about, and the last car show ive been to (unfortunately) was probably around 10 years ago. I will gladly leave feedback however if there is anything to say about it but im assuming unless it faults and my oil pressure drops or my engine blows, I will hopefully not notice it because that will mean its doing its job as far as I know. Again, I don't mean this to be rude by any means..just stating my view on the matter.

 

[Brent Dalton]

You are missing the point, but that is ok. Best of luck.

 

[Trackaholic]

Would the GT350 oil pan fit on the regular Coyote engine? I believe it has extra baffles, a larger capacity, and is designed with higher cornering G's in mind.

-T

 

[pinero61]

Would the GT350 oil pan fit on the regular Coyote engine? I believe it has extra baffles, a larger capacity, and is designed with higher cornering G's in mind.

-T

Virtually everything else does, so if it doesn't, it's not by much.

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