Of headers, E85, & emissions

[JJR512]

I think you can tell from the thread title where this is going. I’d LIKE to add headers and an E85 tune to my car (in addition to an 18 ported manifold, closed-box CAI, and catback, and I realize I’ll need injectors for the E85).

But I have to be able to pass emissions inspections, without having to swap off the headers and re-flashing the tune. Maryland’s emissions inspections are an OBD2 check for codes, not a sniff test.

I’ve been told the tune can be set to disable the CEL system. I’ve also been told there are spacers to back the O2 sensors a bit out so they see less exhaust flow.

What are the consequences and drawbacks of those solutions? Are there any other solutions available?

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[Jay-rod427]

I think you can tell from the thread title where this is going. I’d LIKE to add headers and an E85 tune to my car (in addition to an 18 ported manifold, closed-box CAI, and catback, and I realize I’ll need injectors for the E85).

But I have to be able to pass emissions inspections, without having to swap off the headers and re-flashing the tune. Maryland’s emissions inspections are an OBD2 check for codes, not a sniff test.

I’ve been told the tune can be set to disable the CEL system. I’ve also been told there are spacers to back the O2 sensors a bit out so they see less exhaust flow.

What are the consequences and drawbacks of those solutions? Are there any other solutions available?

If the tune disables the CEL sys it will also turn off the readiness the obd2 test looks for. Unless Maryland is truly only looks for cel codes. IF that's the case you don't even need the o2 spacers as the rear o2's can simply be turned off in the tune.

 

[Jay-rod427]

From maryland dmv it is not just a cel test, it is emmissions readiness.

http://www.mva.maryland.gov/vehicles/veip/not-ready-for-testing-code.htm

A tune cannot simply turn off the cel system related to emissions and pass this test. You will need a tune that leaves emissions intact, and even worse you need the systems to show ready which can sometimes be a pain getting them all to show ready. And re-loading the tune makes the readiness system start all over. And will also need the rear O2 sensor spacers and say a prayer it works.

 

[SAY WHAT]

as a person from maryland i wont be doing long tubes, however e85 and 18 intake manifold with lock outs will pass emissions fine. This is the current set up im using.

 

[JJR512]

A thought occurs. If a high-flow cat is used, that would solve the problem entirely...right?

How much of a power reduction do high-flow cats cause? I’ve heard elsewhere it’s not really a big difference.

Side note: what is the difference in sound (tone and quality) does it make to have high-flow cats vs not having them?

 

[Zelek]

A thought occurs. If a high-flow cat is used, that would solve the problem entirely...right?

How much of a power reduction do high-flow cats cause? I’ve heard elsewhere it’s not really a big difference.

Side note: what is the difference in sound (tone and quality) does it make to have high-flow cats vs not having them?

High flow cats won't change it. They tone down the sound a little and the smell. HP difference is only a few on an N/A car.

I have both catless leads and catted leads, spacers and no spacers and my O2 / HO2 remains red. The only way I passed inspection in Texas was a tune that disabled it all except EVAP, CC, and FUEL. Those 3 items green made the test pass as N/A gets you by here. 2 Not Ready is a fail.

Because long tube headers move the O2's so far back, it's tough to get the tests to run. I worked with Jon Lund II on 4 tunes to tighten up my fuel trims and still had no luck.

I may have to re-buy a 2018 JLT to pass inspection as I believe Lund no longer disables emission systems because of the EPA crackdown.

 

[Bartly]

High flow cats won't change it. They tone down the sound a little and the smell. HP difference is only a few on an N/A car.

I have both catless leads and catted leads, spacers and no spacers and my O2 / HO2 remains red. The only way I passed inspection in Texas was a tune that disabled it all except EVAP, CC, and FUEL. Those 3 items green made the test pass as N/A gets you by here. 2 Not Ready is a fail.

Because long tube headers move the O2's so far back, it's tough to get the tests to run. I worked with Jon Lund II on 4 tunes to tighten up my fuel trims and still had no luck.

I may have to re-buy a 2018 JLT to pass inspection as I believe Lund no longer disables emission systems because of the EPA crackdown.

I have a tune that makes all the monitors N/A (greyed out) and I passed the test. The following year they failed me because my monitors weren’t matching what their books said they were supposed to be. This year I was going to bite the bullet and go with Lund having seen a couple guys had luck with Lund making the O2, HO2 and CAT go green. I hate seeing reports of Lund tunes not being able to pass those three monitors. Sucks cause I’m kind of in a corner now and will most likely fork over the money for nothing but high hopes and another failed inspection. Still going to cross my fingers though.

 

[Zelek]

I have a tune that makes all the monitors N/A (greyed out) and I passed the test. The following year they failed me because my monitors weren’t matching what their books said they were supposed to be. This year I was going to bite the bullet and go with Lund having seen a couple guys had luck with Lund making the O2, HO2 and CAT go green. I hate seeing reports of Lund tunes not being able to pass those three monitors. Sucks cause I’m kind of in a corner now and will most likely fork over the money for nothing but high hopes and another failed inspection. Still going to cross my fingers though.

Yeah man, emissions testing is a pain in the ass. It's like the one stress I don't look forward to every year. I really don't want to get rid of my headers either. I love them. I just don't want to fork over another $200 for a JLT intake that makes my car die due to the turbulence it sees at low rpms just to simply go and get it inspected and swap it out.

 

[Bartly]

Yeah man, emissions testing is a pain in the ass. It's like the one stress I don't look forward to every year. I really don't want to get rid of my headers either. I love them. I just don't want to fork over another $200 for a JLT intake that makes my car die due to the turbulence it sees at low rpms just to simply go and get it inspected and swap it out.

Tell me about it, swapping injectors and removing a supercharger gets kind of old, specially in a cold ass garage.

 

[JJR512]

I went to Revolution Auto today, a local highly-respected Mustang specialist, to get a baseline dyno run before I start doing mods. So of course I talked to the people there about this issue.

He told me that headers with high-flow cats should be good, and nothing needs to be disabled or any other trickery. He recommended Kooks, with their “green series” high flow cats. He said the Kooks headers put the O2 sensors in a more ideal place than other headers do. He also suggested Texas Speed as another possibility.

So that’s what they’re suggesting, and they’re going to be who I ultimately get a dyno tune from. So I think I’m going to go along with their suggestions.

 

[Zelek]

I went to Revolution Auto today, a local highly-respected Mustang specialist, to get a baseline dyno run before I start doing mods. So of course I talked to the people there about this issue.

He told me that headers with high-flow cats should be good, and nothing needs to be disabled or any other trickery. He recommended Kooks, with their “green series” high flow cats. He said the Kooks headers put the O2 sensors in a more ideal place than other headers do. He also suggested Texas Speed as another possibility.

So that’s what they’re suggesting, and they’re going to be who I ultimately get a dyno tune from. So I think I’m going to go along with their suggestions.

They aren't wrong, but those headers are $$$$$. The cat is still back further on the driver side than the OEM location. One nice advantage Kook's has is the angled O2 sensors for E85 use. I haven't had any issues with my horizontal O2 positions on my ARH headers with E85 though. One thing I've seen people say is to get the monitors to set with longtubes, you have to get some major heat going through them (WOT) to get them to read.

 

[Bartly]

I went to Revolution Auto today, a local highly-respected Mustang specialist, to get a baseline dyno run before I start doing mods. So of course I talked to the people there about this issue.

He told me that headers with high-flow cats should be good, and nothing needs to be disabled or any other trickery. He recommended Kooks, with their “green series” high flow cats. He said the Kooks headers put the O2 sensors in a more ideal place than other headers do. He also suggested Texas Speed as another possibility.

So that’s what they’re suggesting, and they’re going to be who I ultimately get a dyno tune from. So I think I’m going to go along with their suggestions.

i remember when the Procharger help desk told me I should be fine too. I think it’s industry standard to use words like “should” when selling things.

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