Nurburgring question?...

[Hack]

Why does Ford not release 'Ring times? I assume because they use that track for testing purposes only and recognize that there is no "standard" as to how a timed lap is conducted at that venue. Therefore, a direct time comparison between cars means nothing in the real world. Some companies like to use 'Ring times for marketing purposes, others do not. Ford just happens to be one that does not.

I agree that car companies can cheat on their times by messing with start and stop locations or using a car that's better than what they will offer the public. That's true of any performance spec a car company releases, but most simpler specs are easier to verify.

Maybe I just object to calling someone an idiot. Not a big deal, just not the way I think I guess.

I think times around the 'ring can tell us something, but they definitely don't define everything about which car is better. So I guess I'm somewhat agreeing with you - but not calling anyone an idiot. :shrug:

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[Papaya]

It is always funny that people compare the GT PP with the M4. A $45,000 car vs. a $82,000 car. For 0.2 seconds a lot more money to spend IMO. I am sure in August/September when the Mustang is on the German roads you get more information about Nuerburgring times.

 

[H1 GT]

My friend has a 435ix, it was dead even from 40-115ish. Then later, from behind him at about 70 I was gaining on him till I had to shift into 6th at 141, he just kept pulling n hit the limiter at 155; I only made it to 146, unlimited.

The 4 series doesn't mess around.

 

[Trackaholic]

The M4 is much quicker in a straight line, especially with the dual clutch. I'm actually very impressed that the Mustang was only 0.2 behind on that Hockenheim test.

I'm sure the Mustang will be quite a bit slower on the 'Ring due to the straight line speed difference, but there is more to a performance car than just pure numbers, such as how it makes you feel when you drive it. The M3/4 are great cars, but not my cup of tea this generation.

-T

 

[cush]

It is always funny that people compare the GT PP with the M4. A $45,000 car vs. a $82,000 car. For 0.2 seconds a lot more money to spend IMO. I am sure in August/September when the Mustang is on the German roads you get more information about Nuerburgring times.

You're numbers are for I'm assuming similarly speced cars, but in reality the base GT PP is about half the price of the base M4. I think the M4 starts around $65K, the GT PP would be around $35 - 36K (a little more than half). What could you do to the GT PP for an extra $30K?

 

[Nazgul]

My friend has a 435ix, it was dead even from 40-115ish. Then later, from behind him at about 70 I was gaining on him till I had to shift into 6th at 141, he just kept pulling n hit the limiter at 155; I only made it to 146, unlimited.

The 4 series doesn't mess around.

Hmmm, is the 4 tuned? I was just slightly ahead of my buddy in a tuned 335i to about those speeds. I would have thought stock our car would have slowly walked away.

 

[H1 GT]

Hmmm, is the 4 tuned? I was just slightly ahead of my buddy in a tuned 335i to about those speeds. I would have thought stock our car would have slowly walked away.

Nope. Both completely stock, powertrain wise. In the 40-115 I made every shift perfect. I will agree, it doesn't make sense. ~100 more HP and similar weight, yet they are about identical in performance. BMW knows how to make a car :shrug:

 

[Nazgul]

Nope. Both completely stock, powertrain wise. In the 40-115 I made every shift perfect. I will agree, it doesn't make sense. ~100 more HP and similar weight, yet they are about identical in performance. BMW knows how to make a car :shrug:

Yeah that makes no sense at all. A 435 is anywhere from 3500-4100 lbs iirc. The motor is rated at 300hp which means is probably closer to 320. You're still talking 100+ hp in favor of the mustang. And considering I ran side by side with my friends which makes about 365-70 whp in a slightly lighter car I'm dumbfounded that a 435i would stay with you.

 

[wildsailor]

Nope. Both completely stock, powertrain wise. In the 40-115 I made every shift perfect. I will agree, it doesn't make sense. ~100 more HP and similar weight, yet they are about identical in performance. BMW knows how to make a car :shrug:

Motion of a car is due to the torque and gearing where the HP is just a computed number for comparisons. What are the torque specs for each engine and at what RPM? The area under the torque curve may be greater over a wider RPM on the M4 than the GT but I am not familiar at all with the M4 specs I am just guessing.

 

[mc lane]

ok
this is not from the "Ring" (the green hell), but from the Hockenheim Ring
and still it tells a lot

look here

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...015-und-ford-mustang-289-im-test-9266443.html

Quote:
"Mit einem Bremsweg von 34,9 Metern aus 100 km/h und einer Hockenheim-Rundenzeit von 1.13,8 Minuten bedrängt der Ford Mustang GT Fastback die deutsche Coupé-Konkurrenz um den zuletzt gemessenen BMW M4 (sport auto 11/2014: 35,5 m, 1.13,6 min) sowie den Audi RS5 (sport auto 12/2014: 34,7 m, 1.14,1 min) stärker als jemals zuvor"

braking (62mph to 0): Mustang 34,9 meters, M4: 34,7meters, RS5: 34,7meters
laptimes: Mustang 1.13,8 min; M4: 1.13.6 min; RS5: 1.14,1 min

for those who cannot judge Sport Auto: a top german Sport car Magazine

their conclusion: Quote: "Die Zeiten, als über die Power-Ponys hierzulande gelächelt werden konnte, gehören spätestens jetzt der Vergangenheit an. "
translated (not literally): the times, when everybody was laughing about power-ponies, are finally over


and here a few more interesting data:

http://www.wendland-tuning.de/s02_04_Rundenzeiten%20Hockenheim.pdf

take a look at the Porsche 911 Speedster from 2011: 1.13,4, or the Mercedes E63 AMG Performance Package from 2012: 1.14.0 , or the the Aston Martin Virage from 2012: 1.14.0 and so on...

if you want to know even more:

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/hockenheim_short.html

(for instance 2010 Camaro SS: 1.18.9)

 

[mc lane]

Does anyone know what the 2015 mustang GTPP does the Nurburgring at?

My boss just got the pheonix yellow M4 and we can't find who is faster around the ring....its a joke around the office that anytime I get a car he gets one that's better. I should rent a lambo for a week and watch him sell his house to get a Mclaren lol.

He has a tune and I have all the mods listed in my signature and I beat him around town all day. But stock to stock the Nurburgring would answer a lot of questions.
:ford::ford::ford:

in this mag

http://www.autozeitung.de/sonderhefte/sports-luxury-cars-03-2015-heft-vorschau?panorama=1


they did some professional testing with an eu-premium-gt-Fastback-mt (the eu-car have the Performance pack as Standard Equipment)

nurburing: 8:07

here a list of lap times by one of the leading german car mags

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/rundenzeiten/supertests/

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife

(a Little bit better than a BMW M6)



Hockenheim: short circuit: 1:15,8 (esp off) 1:16,0 (esp on)

they dyno-ed the car: 452PS (Ford claimes 418), 566 Nm (Ford claimes 530)

 

[AmerikanishesPferd]

Why does Ford not release 'Ring times? I assume because they use that track for testing purposes only and recognize that there is no "standard" as to how a timed lap is conducted at that venue. Therefore, a direct time comparison between cars means nothing in the real world. Some companies like to use 'Ring times for marketing purposes, others do not. Ford just happens to be one that does not.

It's not Ford. I was told of a recent rule that all companies are no longer allowed to post "official" times from the ring. I'm not sure why, perhaps too many tourists coming to try and make similar times and end up crashing?

I live maybe about an hour away from the ring, before I moved I was way closer and would always see Audi R8s and Porsches on the autobahn on their way to the track. Thats really the only thing I miss about the former place haha.

 

[3450]

My friend has a 435ix, it was dead even from 40-115ish. Then later, from behind him at about 70 I was gaining on him till I had to shift into 6th at 141, he just kept pulling n hit the limiter at 155; I only made it to 146, unlimited.

The 4 series doesn't mess around.

As an ex-owner of a F30 335xi, which uses the same exact motor as the 435xi (N55), the GT should be faster from a 40 mph rolling start. You can either get a manual or the ZF8 in the 4 series. I'm guessing your buddy had a ZF8, which for a non-DCT auto transmission, it's a fast shifter. Either way, you should've won, even if the difference wasn't too much. Or he had some mods.

Yeah that makes no sense at all. A 435 is anywhere from 3500-4100 lbs iirc. The motor is rated at 300hp which means is probably closer to 320. You're still talking 100+ hp in favor of the mustang. And considering I ran side by side with my friends which makes about 365-70 whp in a slightly lighter car I'm dumbfounded that a 435i would stay with you.

435xi should be about 3750-3775 lbs. Even if he had the 435xi Gran Coupe, it should weigh in around 3885 lbs. The N55 is underrated like a typical BMW, and makes around 320 hp/330 tq (at crank). Either way, the Mustang GT should've won. The Ecoboost is a better model to compare to the 435i/335i.

 

[NotBlake]

The M4 will be significantly faster around a race track. It's 200 lbs lighter and has a lightning fast dual clutch gearbox. It's suspension is also considerably more sophisticated than the Mustang. Don't get me wrong, I love the mustang but the M4 is a better track machine stock for stock. Now if you spend the money modding the PP up to the M4's base price, the stang would be MUCH faster.

 

[valentinoamoro]

The M4 is a faster car in a straight line but is difficult to drive fast, has tricky overseer, ultra rigid chassis and sharp but numb steering...I find no joy in that car. Now the E36 and E 46 M3 is a different matter...

To me the M4 is moving quickly to the muscle car territory. Lol
GT is organic, mechanical and forgiving, but more softly sprung stock. Needs some mods to satisfy track rats looking to set lap times but more of a casual enthusiast driving machine that will grow with your abilities...I do hate that axle hop though...

I'm sure the GT350 R keeps all of that goodness but purges all of the softness in the GT. No need for the M4'

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