New high flow IC pump for Whipple Kits

[Roh92cp]

I'm not calling you a liar. I'm saying your data is incorrect. What you're describing is absolutely impossible. There is no way your IAT's are that low, end of story.

There have been issues with the IAT transfer function on the S550's. We discovered them while doing development on our S550. To nail down exactly what was going on we bought and installed two stand alone IAT sensors/gauges so we could check them against what the car's ECU was telling us. The cars ECU was wrong, way wrong. Lund did some voodoo and got the IAT's to read closer, but they never got to the point where they matched the two independent stand alone sensors/gauges.

Based on the fact that the IAT's you're seeing are mathematically impossible under your conditions and that it's a fact that there are IAT sampling issues with the S550 one can only draw the conclusion that what you're seeing isn't accurate.

I'm sorry to disappoint.

Questions:

1. The stock AIT sensor location in the MAF will never see post blower temps on the PD setups, but will on centi and turbos. Are you saying the MAF location AIT and stock transfer function is wrong and doesn't report actual temps?

2. With positive displacement setups the MAF location is always pre blower inlet side so these kits add another AIT in the manifold which samples post blower right. In these cases they tap into the IMRC plug and then program the post AIT sensors transfer function correct. Are you saying these transfer function are wrong and reporting incorrect data to the PCM.

3. In your testing with the new AIT sensors you added what is the difference between PCM post blower AIT's and the new ones you added?

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[Department Of Boost]

Questions:

1. The stock AIT sensor location in the MAF will never see post blower temps on the PD setups

Correct.

but will on centi and turbos.

Yes, sorta. You can read IAT's post compressor on a centri/turbo car with the stock MAF if it's located after the compressor. But, you can't compare the centri/turbo IAT's directly to each other because on the centri/turbo application you're sampling the IAT's long before you get to the intake port. There is heating in the system between the stock MAF and where PD blowers sample the air. So if the centri/turbo shows a 120deg IAT it may be 140deg if you were to sample it at the same spot PD blowers do.

The stock MAF when used in a centri/turbo also doesn't react nearly as fast as the PD blowers do to temp changes. It can take the stock MAF 8-9sec to read correctly. Which is longer than most dyno runs and damn near a 1/4mi. That's a completely different thing to get into though. Long story short you can't compare PD IAT's with centri/turbo IAT's unless the centri/turbo has a additional sensor located in the intake runner.

Are you saying the MAF location AIT and stock transfer function is wrong and doesn't report actual temps?

In some cases yes. In the OP's case absolutely. Those numbers are impossible.

2. With positive displacement setups the MAF location is always pre blower inlet side so these kits add another AIT in the manifold which samples post blower right.

Most of the kits "move" the IAT sensor from the MAF to the manifold post compressor. They don't run two.

In these cases they tap into the IMRC plug and then program the post AIT sensors transfer function correct.

Some kits do this, some don't.

Are you saying these transfer function are wrong and reporting incorrect data to the PCM.

In some cases yes.

3. In your testing with the new AIT sensors you added what is the difference between PCM post blower AIT's and the new ones you added?

It wasn't linear. IDK why, tuning/programming isn't my thing. At idle or cruising around it would be off one amount and at WOT another. When we first discovered it we were off about 50-60deg at WOT. After we got revised wiring schematics and a new update from Lund it was, and still is, off about 10-12deg at WOT.

And to head this question off at the pass.....the OP is off WAY more than 10-12deg.

 

[Zozi]

Wow thats too long

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[Roh92cp]

It wasn't linear. IDK why, tuning/programming isn't my thing. At idle or cruising around it would be off one amount and at WOT another. When we first discovered it we were off about 50-60deg at WOT. After we got revised wiring schematics and a new update from Lund it was, and still is, off about 10-12deg at WOT.
.

Above when speaking of the comparison of your installed AIT sensor and the sensor used by the PCM are you referring to a PD setup with a dedicated AIT In the manifold hot side, or a centi setup using the stock MAF AIT sensor running on the hot side?

In regards to the Whipple setup, I've talked with Whipple on this and they do have two AIT locations pre and post blower one being the stock MAF AIT and the other being the added manifold location which taps into the IMRC connector. Right now according to Whipple their is no good way to get the AIT 2 post blower temps recorded or displayed. I was told N Gauge could display it but accuracy of that dos played temp was in question.

I'm surprised though you report the sock MAF AIT sensor is so slow to respond. 8 seconds doesn't sound possible.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Above when speaking of the comparison of your installed AIT sensor and the sensor used by the PCM are you referring to a PD setup with a dedicated AIT In the manifold hot side, or a centi setup using the stock MAF AIT sensor running on the hot side?

A PD with a dedicated IAT sensor in the manifold post compressor/intercooler (hot side). We actually installed two stand alone units (different brands) along side the IAT sensor triggering the ECU.

In regards to the Whipple setup, I've talked with Whipple on this and they do have two AIT locations pre and post blower one being the stock MAF AIT and the other being the added manifold location which taps into the IMRC connector. Right now according to Whipple their is no good way to get the AIT 2 post blower temps recorded or displayed. I was told N Gauge could display it but accuracy of that dos played temp was in question.

And that's the rub. We originally ran ours with the sensor in the MAF and a second sensor in the manifold wired through the IMRC connector. The post compressor sensor was reading WAY wrong. At the time Lund told us to abandon the IMRC method and wire the IAT sensor in the manifold to the wiring that goes/went to the IAT sensor in the MAF. He fiddled around with how it was sampled from that point (it reads on the dash and the N Gauge) and it's a lot closer to reality, but it's still not 100% right. We no longer have the IAT being sampled at the MAF. But at least we're getting a close-ish reading post compressor/intercooler where it counts.

I'm surprised though you report the sock MAF AIT sensor is so slow to respond. 8 seconds doesn't sound possible.

It responds instantly. But it can take up to 8 seconds to show what the actual temp is. For example. If you whack it with a 200deg air charge it will start to show you a temp rise instantly. But it will take up to 8 seconds to show the entire 200deg. So if you make a 4sec dyno pull with a 200deg air charge you may only see a 150deg reading. Which is of course not accurate and could be problematic if stuff is on the edge.

A friend of mine (a tuner) had suspected this for a long time and last year finally set up conditions to test it. It's a thing.

 

[Roh92cp]

Whipple says they have the ability (thier in house Ford calibration engineer) to write the proper AIT transfer function for the AIT 2 to accurately be used and wire through the IMRC. What they said they don't have available yet is the ability to data log that in their customer based Whipple flare program, but it coming soon. Any other system that taps into the OBD port will not show an accurate AIT 2 post blower, but the PCM will be accurate according to Whipple.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Whipple says they have the ability (thier in house Ford calibration engineer) to write the proper AIT transfer function for the AIT 2 to accurately be used and wire through the IMRC. What they said they don't have available yet is the ability to data log that in their customer based Whipple flare program, but it coming soon. Any other system that taps into the OBD port will not show an accurate AIT 2 post blower, but the PCM will be accurate according to Whipple.

Well, evo8904's IAT's aren't even remotely possible. So I don't know what's going on there.

 

[Roh92cp]

Well, evo8904's IAT's aren't even remotely possible. So I don't know what's going on there.

That's because he is not tapping into the correct AIT 2 transfer function calibrated by Whipple. If I'm correct he is using another system like N gauge or SCT through the OBD port and that's not gonna show the correct AIT.

 

[BMR Tech]

Whipple says they have the ability (thier in house Ford calibration engineer) to write the proper AIT transfer function for the AIT 2 to accurately be used and wire through the IMRC. What they said they don't have available yet is the ability to data log that in their customer based Whipple flare program, but it coming soon. Any other system that taps into the OBD port will not show an accurate AIT 2 post blower, but the PCM will be accurate according to Whipple.

I have my IAT2's displayed on my dash, and on my NGAUGE.

They are very accurate. They may not be 100%, but they are just about dead on what other combos like mine have been showing since 2011.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I have my IAT2's displayed on my dash, and on my NGAUGE.

They are very accurate. They may not be 100%, but they are just about dead on what other combos like mine have been showing since 2011.

I'm guessing you're set up exactly like we are (or vice versa) being that we're both tuned by Lund, using the N Gauge and wired in the same way. You're correct, it's pretty damn close. Close enough for government work.

I'm not sure how close let's say the S197's were. I've never heard of anyone hooking up multiple IAT gauges before (why would you really?). For all I know all the stuff back through even Terminators are a touch off.

 

[Department Of Boost]

That's because he is not tapping into the correct AIT 2 transfer function calibrated by Whipple. If I'm correct he is using another system like N gauge or SCT through the OBD port and that's not gonna show the correct AIT.

Ahh, that slipped past me. I thought he was running the Whipple setup/calibration. My mistake.

 

[BMR Tech]

I can say this much, the second I start my car up - the IAT2's read just about exact ambient.

Of course, as the temps get up past 100+ the deltas can increase.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I can say this much, the second I start my car up - the IAT2's read just about exact ambient.

Of course, as the temps get up past 100+ the deltas can increase.

That was the first thing that tipped us off something was wrong. When we went key on the IAT2 was showing different than the CHT. They should be identical if the car is stone cold.

 

[Whipple SC]

Whipple says they have the ability (thier in house Ford calibration engineer) to write the proper AIT transfer function for the AIT 2 to accurately be used and wire through the IMRC. What they said they don't have available yet is the ability to data log that in their customer based Whipple flare program, but it coming soon. Any other system that taps into the OBD port will not show an accurate AIT 2 post blower, but the PCM will be accurate according to Whipple.

As accurate as the sensor can read.


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[evo8904]

http://www.lethalperformance.com/shop-now/vehicle-selector/ford-mustang-v8-gt/2015-ford-mustang-gt/supercharger-upgrades/whipple/vmp-2015-2016-mustang-gt-5-0l-iat-harness-and-brass-air-temp-sensor-for-pd-blowers.html


^^^ This is what I had to use for my Lund tune so that we could see the after blower temps. Lund wouldn't finish my tune prior to me installing this.

[/URL][/IMG]

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