New 2015 Mustang Dimensions

[Falc'man]

ThePill, that's good to hear.

Further to my post, my source was referring to the platform when he said "all-new".

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[Melino]

I think you missed the memo, the S550 is an evolution of the pony car to something it's never been. This will be an evolution as was the Skyline to GTR, 1st Gen Vette to 2nd... It cannot be compared to anything they have done before however, it has captured the Mustang and every little piece of is history in every angle.

It was described to me as, the perfect place the Mustang could have gone. It couldn't have been done any different. The S197 looks extremely dated...

The S197's chassis was optimized in 2002, however, there were budget issues. Very, very, very little is used from 197 to 550. Just like the Fox and Fox4... For the time, the SN95 was quite advanced. I want a good car and I don't mind if Ford uses something borrowed. It has worked wonders in the past...

Another thing, this chassis is design FOR the Mustang just as the previous car. It is being optimized for JUST what the Mustang needs. Not being loaned like the ATS/Camaro. Sharing brings compromise. The Ultimate Mustang chassis has been developed over the last 13 years and possibly even farther into the Fox/Fox-4. This is not a new stab in the dark, it's 50 years in the making.

You think the Z28 is where Ford wants to go? Ford doesn't follow, especially if it leads their customers to a dead end. The GT and GT350 will be the ONLY logical option for road racing, the GT500 will continue to dominate the strip.

All from chassis engineering from Motorsport.

That sounds great but I'm hearing 2 separate theories and honestly both don't give me total confidence that the S550 is completely optimized JUST for what the Mustang needs. Either it's somehow based off CD4 (CD4.3?) and is a modular platform that allows both FWD/RWD formats, or it is modified from a larger RWD platform..... either way sounds like some cost-savings or component sharing which almost always leads to less optimized and more compromised in some ways. And isn't this thing supposed to support a future Lincoln too?

 

[thePill]

That sounds great but I'm hearing 2 separate theories and honestly both don't give me total confidence that the S550 is completely optimized JUST for what the Mustang needs. Either it's somehow based off CD4 (CD4.3?) and is a modular platform that allows both FWD/RWD formats, or it is modified from a larger RWD platform..... either way sounds like some cost-savings or component sharing which almost always leads to less optimized and more compromised in some ways. And isn't this thing supposed to support a future Lincoln too?

The compromise starts at the Lincoln, the initial design is Mustang. For example, the ATS chassis made changes it needed and it made those changes without concern for the Camaro. The Camaro will have to be engineered around those decisions. The Mustang has approached chassis design this way for some time however, they haven't loaned their chassis out. This could be the first time... Designed 1st, more expensive but highly optimized. It creates issues for the next in the design line. But, the next Mustang can still benefit from cost reduction from sharing ITS chassis... same as borrowing ITS chassis without designing around the initial design.

I have a feeling it's something new, few things borrowed...

 

[thePill]

It's a replacement for the existing 2 door coupe... Will the next chassis classify as a full size chassis (like the S197) or will it be reduced to a Mid-size class... Probably the later but based on the old full size S197. Kinda miniaturizing technology using flow formed panels. Increasing rigidity while reducing weight and cost.

 

[Tony Alonso]

They're good points you've raised. I myself have no idea but one guy I know well enough for me to say he's as reliable as they get, has said it's all-new. Thed's contact has said the same thing.

By the way, there's also re-engineering involved to accept RHD (or if it's the platform I'm hoping it is, it would be converted from RHD to LHD ).

On that, the E8 platform, when re-engineered (or revised) for FG Falcon, was made so that conversion to LHD could have been done without too much fuss. It also has AWD capabilities according to one expert.

Here's to what we hope is "all-new"

 

[Mriley]

I gotta ask this question, if simply because I don't remember that far back.

When the s197 platform rumors were leaked, did we know it was "all-new" or not?

Is this simply another example of the s550 being the best kept secret in Ford history or just business as usual for all new generations?

 

[Tony Alonso]

The S197 looks extremely dated...

It looks very "timeless" to me

The S197's chassis was optimized in 2002, however, there were budget issues. Very, very, very little is used from 197 to 550. Just like the Fox and Fox4... For the time, the SN95 was quite advanced. I want a good car and I don't mind if Ford uses something borrowed. It has worked wonders in the past...

In reviews of the FOX-4 chassis, the major part that stayed the same was the floor pan. It was described in articles as a way to reduce cost be retaining the manufacturing investment to make some that people would not see anyway. I say they might not see it, but they sure know it because of the wheelbase and the interior room.

It is one reason why I would think it's more than just a wheelbase dimension that is the same in the new car. It's why I think the floor pan is retained, but the engineering would focus on the bracing, shortening the part of the rear to take out weight, etc.

It's the manufacturing considerations that have to balance out against a full clean sheet. Not that I personally mind an all-new, lighter, stronger, IRS-suspended platform, of course. As mentioned in a post above "all-new" might be somewhat deceptive.

Regardless, I hope we see less weight, terrific handling, styling that pleases both new and current owners, and a model line-up that spans the realm we see currently.

S550Boss, I'll take your rickety old Boss 302 when you are done with it - haha!

 

[Overboost]

It looks very "timeless" to me

I couldn't agree more. I wish the gaps between the '65-70 and the '05-14 would have been more of an evolution. The Fox cars stand out, but are still a huge part of Mustang history. I just wish going back, the Mustang would have followed a timeline more like the 911. A continued evolution, not periodic revolution in styling.

S550Boss, you've proven time and time again to have no credible info on the S550. This forum, others, and the auto news outlets continue to spout half truths and wild hair ideas on what the new car will or won't be.

Some food for thought: Ford has invested heavily into the "One Ford" program and pledged to reduce the number of platforms in their portfolio significantly by the end of the decade (this article mentions end of 2013):
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120111/CARNEWS/120119960

The point is, why can't we have an all-new, globally derived platform that fits a number of roles? CD4 will underpin a large number of vehicles, and with Ford of Australia being shuttered, the large vehicle, RWD platform could be sourced globally and modified from an existing platform, such as CD4, to fit the roles we want to see (Mustang, Lincoln RWD sedan, Lincoln coupe, Falcon successor). This platform reduction isn't a new idea, look at the VAG's MQB architecture for small/midsize cars as a prime example. GM is working on the same thing going forward.

Trying to take empirical data from pictures is a bad idea. Until someone sits these two vehicles up side by side, we're making assumptions. If someone can lay out a tape measure next to an S550 prototype and compare, we're just pissing in the wind.

 

[KZStang]

I'm really not sure what "wild hair ideas" this forum, others and auto news outlets have continued to spout exactly. What specifically are you referring to?

There are a lot of rumors, and until we get confirmation from Ford, all is fair game for discussion.

As for CD4, that itself is a rumor. And I've yet to see Ford confirm it. And if you're comparing it to the rumor of it being based off a larger RWD platform, I can tell you which one sounds more like a wild hair idea to me..... the one that is NOT a RWD platform. To be clear, I am not saying it won't be, nor am I agreeing with the original poster, but we are all working in a vacuum of info here until more official word from Ford. That is how it's always been.

 

[MustangDizzle]

Rumor = speculative bullshit when it comes to S550 credibility of information.


"I heard that..."

Ya, I'm sure you did. From somebody else who also knows nothing about it.



The only truly credible information we have is what has been confirmed by Ford. Some speculation will be true,because if you ponder and speculate 20,000 different possibilities, one of them is bound to be true.


What we know for sure:

Engine carryovers and a new eco boost. Power output undetermined.

IRS

Lower roofline (spy pics tell us only that much), complete redesign.


Weight loss, but how much?


That's it. Everything else anyone says is not to be taken as gospel truth. Concrete information is scarce.

 

[Overboost]

A few off the top of my head:

-Twin turbo 5.0 for the SVT model

-Rumored weight loss for the S550 vehicle

-Twin turbo 3.5V6

-Multiple SVT models at the same time

-Mach 1

-Evolved S197 platform as the basis for S550.

Without going into more, take a look at the direction Ford is moving, and what they've been doing recently. Using fewer, more flexible platforms is not a far fetched idea. CD4 is already slated to underpin the Fusion/Mondeo/MKZ, Edge/MKX, and supposedly the next Taurus/MKS, replacing the D2, D3, and CD3 platforms. D2C was right in the mix of the aforementioned platforms, so it's not a stretch to infer that CD4 might be modified to create the new underpinnings for S550.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_CD4_platform

They list a few, but I suspect more could be added to that list of vehicles based on the CD4 architecture.

 

[KZStang]

First, I must be missing the part where anyone said we are officially getting a TTV8 or TTV6. These have always been aspirational in nature and frankly thrown around in every Mustang related venue I have come across. If you have never considered these possibilities, you lack imagination. The enthusiast crowd as a whole is always ahead of the curve and vocal. And good thing, otherwise the Mustang may be a FWD Probe right now.

Second, not a single thing there is a wild hair idea and I'm betting a few on that list will eventually make its way into the Mustang.

For the record, I consider wild hair ideas = 4 door stang sedan, 2 seat vette-stang, no V8, FWD/AWD, hybrid/electric. None of which are aspirational, and all of which will not happen.

So let's dig deeper.

- Ford concepts (even FRPP) showcase what is possible in production vehicles. You WILL see a TT v8 one day, if only in a FRPP/special edition product. The CobraJet concept shown at SEMA was led by production engineers some of which worked directly on the TTv6 in the F-150. They did not just choose to turbocharge the 5.0 engine willy nilly since NHRA competition rules require the CobraJet to use production components (it uses turbochargers based on units used in the Focus ST). And Ford is looking into titanium aluminide for the turbine and once costs come down, it could find its way into future production programs. This is directly from Ford's website. It's all cost based, nothing outside the realm of possibility.

- TTV6 is already in the F150, which has led the way for the Mustang for some time now. Sharing parts/components/engines is the way forward, as you know. Nothing unfeasible here and it will be purely a business decision whether or not Ford wants to see if they can find the same success with it as in the F-series. I think we see it in 2-3 years.

- Weight loss. Which part of this exactly is an issue? Pericak himself has said 200lbs is the goal and doable.

- Mach1. In 2018? Absolutely possible and would not be 2 SVT products at once if they decide to have the GT350 be a 2-3 years production.

 

[S550Boss]

Some food for thought: Ford has invested heavily into the "One Ford" program and pledged to reduce the number of platforms in their portfolio significantly by the end of the decade (this article mentions end of 2013):
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120111/CARNEWS/120119960

Well certainly a transverse front wheel drive platform will be used for the rear wheel drive V-8 powered Mustang. I've been wrong all along.:doh:

You missed the point all along of what I've wrote - and what this thread started with before it devolved into things other than the dimensions of the car (which are easily self-evident for anybody with a ruler). All I did was to take what we've all seen in the mule (clearly S550 architecture underneath), and now the images, and extrapolated based on past Ford practices. All of which I've personally experienced as an owner since my original 1967 model, and as an industry observer and veteran of many launches.

I have not let Ford "pride" get in the way of what I've said, nor Ford "Über Alles". And I'm not a Commie for hesitating to wave the flag. And I said right at the top that I felt that all the dimensions worked out right, despite not having my drafting equipment with me to make exact measurements. Despite the camo, I'll stick by the wheelbase, side window height, and overall length (within a few inches) of what I calculated. Sorry if you or anybody else don't like what the car is clearly looking like but that's what the ruler tells me.

We have zero corroborating evidence of a GT350 (and 3300 pounds would be nice but is still a bit of a stretch to believe when the current Boss is 3632) or a hogged out Coyote. I don't go for that kind of unsubstantiated rumor, nor PhotoShop hacks which have almost all been ridiculous. None of that stuff can be extrapolated based on what we've seen so far. And a TTV-8 or TTV-6 are just hopes and dreams at this point. Looking at all the pics of the new engine compartment, I can't see how twin turbos on a V-8 could possibly fit (in the Cobra Jet concept they are very far forward, where they couldn't pass crash tests, so that is not a valid example). I've measured an F-150 TTV-6 and it will easily fit... but then that doesn't fit the demographic. At least not yet. As to a TTV-6, well, I've spent a lot of time with a Supra TT and it was a hellvua fine combination - far better IMHO than my one-dimensional Boss engine or antique suspension. Our EcoBoost TT 3.5 could be developed easily to have a very nice set of numbers... maybe past the potential of a Supra TT engine, or maybe so. TBD (and the Ford Service folks will rain on any idea of that). But even that coudln't last long given the required CAFE numbers. There will have to be another weight loss and shortening someday.

And then there is CAFE, where like it or not this car is going to have to do a lot better in the longer term (if you don't like that then you shouldn't have voted for Obama). A lot of readers have some sort of emotional or pride issue with a 4-cylinder Mustang and selling worldwide, or think the EcoBoost Mustang should be an SVO again (which it's not). They don't stop to think about the reality of "One Ford", the Ford financial situation, the past few years in North America (and continuing elsewhere), and the enormous requirements of other higher volume programs.
The EcoBoost 4 and worldwide sales are the salvation of this car.
And another reality (one that has worked well in the past few years) is offering a wide range of options on the base car without forcing buyers into buying V-8s when they don't want them or can't have them at their financial price point or lifestyle. The stripper model Mustangs didn't work well for the bottom line in the Fox or SN95, where the base model was a miserable machine that had very little appeal and dragged down the rest of the line's image with it (and whose only value today is as a V-8 transplant candidate). Buyers can load up a V-6 now nicely, with handling and Sync options, and it's an attractive car for the market. The EcoBoost 4 option will just continue to build appeal to that type of buyer, with a premium engine that offers both a fun-to-drive factor as well as great mileage. Better volumes of this kind of car, with a a fat margin from numerous options, will pay the bills for the entire Mustang line and will make the necessary contribution to getting the fleet average up.

So we'll see in January or April what the actual specs look like, but based on everything so far I think I'm as close as can be at this early and I'll stick with them. If the car turns out to be heavier, or longer, or the side windows magically dip way down in the final prototypes (so that it doesn't look like a Camaro tank), I'll adjust my predictions accordingly.

 

[Lavien]

i honestly cant wrap my head around how you can measure a car in a photograph. this isnt like taking a ruler to a 3 dimensional car. a photo captures depth, dimensions and distance that u cant measure unless it's 100% to scale. the only way to do it is if you got 2 absolutely identical shots from the exact position/angle of both cars to compare against each other. but this isnt the case here. am i missing something?

and my 2 cents on the other issues....

twin turbo v8 is not happening, whether it fits in the engine bay or not, which they could make happen if they really wanted to. the cost alone is a total deal breaker on so many levels.

an ecoboost 6 i think is really intriguing tho. no re-engineering required and i think a lot of people would be interested in one.

 

[Deroxas2.0]

Well if you know the wheel size to be a certain size, you could use that to measure other dimensions of the car.

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