My GT350R will likely be my last Ford car.

[Hack]

Agreed and I am somewhere in the middle. I'm not interested in taking mine to a car show either (you know how I use mine), but it is 2018 and I think it is reasonable to expect almost any car today to have straight panels. Forget the price, I would think engineering a fastener that can hold a panel in place for longer then a year or getting them straight at the factory should've been figured out quite a while ago. Especially from the company that made the automobile a worldwide fixture.

I would think it would behoove Ford to up there quality just a bit to basic standards such as these. Not to mention helping clean up their dealer issues etc. They got so many crossover buyers into Ford showrooms looking at all of their products, not just the GT350. Many will not return again for who knows how long after either their dealer experience or poor quality etc with the GT350. A BMW M4 starts 68,700 (that includes most basic maintenance up to 50k miles and higher build quality, but still not perfect) and can be had with big discounts making it inline with a GT350 price. So I'm not buying the the Ford can't do xyz because of price argument. They are only hurting themselves in an obviously very competitive business climate in the long wrong across the board with these issues.

I agree that Ford should improve panel fitment in some areas. After driving an M4 I believe BMW should really improve their interior switches. IMO they were terrible. For me it's one thing to have a fitment issue (bothersome and annoying on that odd occasion), but far worse to have a function issue. Especially a function issue on a simple interior switch concerned me a lot with the M4 I test drove. I might have to hit that switch more than once every time I drive the car. No thanks. Also, if the M2 or M4 BMWs had a decent sounding engine with 8 cylinders I might be interested. I just don't enjoy listening to a straight 6.

I watched the Savage Geese review on the R a few times before I bought mine. He covers the build quality etc and makes it clear what you’re getting. Take all the aesthetic issues. Even take the A/C issue. Not really huge concerns of mine individually or combined. However - once you introduce the insecurity of wondering when the motor will blow and knowing you’re risking $20k or more by keeping it outside of warranty — the I bought it for the motor notion (that I also share with you and others) becomes questionable. Sure - I can buy an extended warranty for this world class motor... or plan on throwing a new block in at some point as part of the cost of ownership. But it certainly wasn’t something I planned on when I signed on the line for this car. Cheap paint was.

I agree wholeheartedly on the engine durability concerns. Reading alarmist forum posts every day are not helping me. Meanwhile mine is working great. Whether I will have the guts to keep it past the warranty coverage remains to be seen.

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[tjbrowder]

I love my car....it delivers on the performance front all day long. But have to agree with many others, Ford needs to step up their overall quality game regarding fit and finish.

I have owned too many cars to list on here, but can honestly say that Ford is behind the pack in regards to quality compared to other domestic manufacturers.

Do I want to get rid of my car? Hell no....nothing compares to the driving experience. However, if the engine pops like it has for some others on this forum, I will have the car repaired and be done with Ford for good.

It is simply not worth my time to chase issues and let the car own me rather than me own the car.

 

[300blackout]

You always could, my dealer finance guy ran one through FMC for S's n giggles and it was brutal. It made no sense so I obviously just bought it, which is what I planned doing anyway. That was two years ago so things could have obviously changed in that time frame.

Ouch..I have never leased a vehicle so I didn't know that gt350s are brutal to lease.

 

[Minn19]

I agree that Ford should improve panel fitment in some areas. After driving an M4 I believe BMW should really improve their interior switches. IMO they were terrible. For me it's one thing to have a fitment issue (bothersome and annoying on that odd occasion), but far worse to have a function issue. Especially a function issue on a simple interior switch concerned me a lot with the M4 I test drove. I might have to hit that switch more than once every time I drive the car. No thanks. Also, if the M2 or M4 BMWs had a decent sounding engine with 8 cylinders I might be interested. I just don't enjoy listening to a straight 6.



I agree wholeheartedly on the engine durability concerns. Reading alarmist forum posts every day are not helping me. Meanwhile mine is working great. Whether I will have the guts to keep it past the warranty coverage remains to be seen.

We've talked about the switch thing before and I'm still not sure what you were/are getting at. I've had six BMWs and never had a problem with any of them switchgear wise. But, I think what you are getting down to is preference and I did say nothing is perfect as my past and present BMWs have had some quality issues. None nearly as glaring as with Ford (other ones besides my GT350 as well) though, which is obviously to be expected considering the price point. It wasn't/isn't just panels either. In my F150 I have cut myself on the interior plastics in some places. Interior panels popping off on their own and rattles everywhere. Although my M3 was a rattle/squeak monster, which did bother more in that than my GT350 due to the price/perceived premium difference. Plus vibration from the Voodoo means there is always going to be something rattling.

I agree about the engine preference over the S55 in the M4. But, that engine is a hell of a motor as well, just different. Definitely agree on the sound. I tried a couple of different exhausts on my M4 and wasn't satisfied to say the least with any of them.

 

[Minn19]

Ouch..I have never leased a vehicle so I didn't know that gt350s are brutal to lease.

It made zero sense to lease as the payment was higher than a buy and would've been obviously more expensive in the long run, but as I said, things may have changed since then. Check with your dealer and they can give up to date info.

Ford doesn't even like leasing the regular 5.0s so I think they make the programs so bad that nobody wants to. You can go through third party banks though and see if a deal makes sense for you situation.

 

[MrCincinnati]

Speaking of M3s and 911s... someone mentioned previously and I completely agree. Despite the issues - one of the reasons I pulled the trigger on the Ford is because I feel completely comfortable doing basic maintenance myself.. and the stuff I’m not comfortable doing I won’t pay a kidney for when I go to my local preferred mechanic.

Expected long term maintenance costs alone have kept me from pursuing a used M car (or Porsche) — I’d rather a used Shelby than a used German car... even with the prospect of a self financed longblock replacement.

 

[Minn19]

Speaking of M3s and 911s... someone mentioned previously and I completely agree. Despite the issues - one of the reasons I pulled the trigger on the Ford is because I feel completely comfortable doing basic maintenance myself.. and the stuff I’m not comfortable doing I won’t pay a kidney for when I go to my local preferred mechanic.

Expected long term maintenance costs alone have kept me from pursuing a used M car (or Porsche) — I’d rather a used Shelby than a used German car... even with the prospect of a self financed longblock replacement.

I don't know about 911s, but on the M3/4 it isn't a big deal. But, you get "free" oil changes and other basic maintenance items for 4 years 50k so it isn't as big of a deal for awhile.

But yeah, as nervous as I am to own my GT350 out of warranty (mostly due to the Voodoo issues) I'd be even more so on any German car due to the parts and labor time/prices to fix them. The German or M tax is real. Most people find a good indy mechanic they can trust.

 

[300blackout]

Speaking of M3s and 911s... someone mentioned previously and I completely agree. Despite the issues - one of the reasons I pulled the trigger on the Ford is because I feel completely comfortable doing basic maintenance myself.. and the stuff I’m not comfortable doing I won’t pay a kidney for when I go to my local preferred mechanic.

Expected long term maintenance costs alone have kept me from pursuing a used M car (or Porsche) — I’d rather a used Shelby than a used German car... even with the prospect of a self financed longblock replacement.

Valid points. I have an AMG GTS and although the thing is impeccable now and performs flawlessly I can only imagine being bent over without lube when the warranty is over.

 

[DrumReaper]

Frustrated at a car that costs less than 70k that performance wise is as good or better than cars that cost MUCH MUCH more?

I'm quite pleased Ford was able to pull this off.

I have no problem with you Fred. I just don't get a lot of this.

It’s understandable, Tom. It appears your cars have not experienced much of what mine has. No doubt, the FPC is a technical triumph... I get that. I signed in the dotted line 75% for the engine alone. I love my car... doesn’t mean I have to love and admire the mistakes made by those producing my car. Do I love spending currency above and beyond the $67k I have already invested?... no.

With all due respect, to invest $67k and not expect some better quality (accepting the car as “so so quality”) is your perspective... not mine. An assumption that “it’s just a Mustang” doesn’t work for me.

I think you guys are looking at the car show out of context. I was “asked” to bring the car because not many people had seen and R. Cars & Coffee is another venue where everyone sees Ford’s premier performance cars. These venues of exposure are where a lot of people get their first impressions of these cars and if they have shoddy work from the factory it will turn people off. Why not take some pride in your product for those who will see a more rare auto and up the appreciation of what Ford produces?... besides, it’s not like they’ll get to experience a FPC that day, but they sure as heck will appreciate crap paint and bad gaps.

Again, as I stated at the Porsche dealership the other day (and the P car salesman just shook his head) the 350R is the paramount performance car for the buck, I’m just looking outside that box for my next adventure.

 

[Hack]

We've talked about the switch thing before and I'm still not sure what you were/are getting at. I've had six BMWs and never had a problem with any of them switchgear wise. But, I think what you are getting down to is preference and I did say nothing is perfect as my past and present BMWs have had some quality issues. None nearly as glaring as with Ford (other ones besides my GT350 as well) though, which is obviously to be expected considering the price point. It wasn't/isn't just panels either. In my F150 I have cut myself on the interior plastics in some places. Interior panels popping off on their own and rattles everywhere. Although my M3 was a rattle/squeak monster, which did bother more in that than my GT350 due to the price/perceived premium difference. Plus vibration from the Voodoo means there is always going to be something rattling.

I agree about the engine preference over the S55 in the M4. But, that engine is a hell of a motor as well, just different. Definitely agree on the sound. I tried a couple of different exhausts on my M4 and wasn't satisfied to say the least with any of them.

The BMWs I drove had some miles on them. Maybe someone spilled their soda on the switches and didn't clean/replace them afterward. I had trouble getting them to operate properly. IIRC it was the traction control button that bothered me the most.

The BMW 8 series upcoming is interesting to me with a twin turbo V8 and similar to Mustang size (albeit heavier). More of a classy/luxury car than a track car, but I bet the panel fit on it will be a lot better than the Mustang panel fit.

 

[Minn19]

The BMWs I drove had some miles on them. Maybe someone spilled their soda on the switches and didn't clean/replace them afterward. I had trouble getting them to operate properly. IIRC it was the traction control button that bothered me the most.

The BMW 8 series upcoming is interesting to me with a twin turbo V8 and similar to Mustang size (albeit heavier). More of a classy/luxury car than a track car, but I bet the panel fit on it will be a lot better than the Mustang panel fit.

That is the funny thing for me is that nothing really interests me from them right now. Maybe the M2CS, which will have a detuned version of the S55 in the M3/4 right now or like you said the 8 series. But, the money they are going to want for the 8 series, I may as well get a 911 I want (just a guess). It'll be interesting to see what they come out with for the next gen M3/4 in the next couple of years.

 

[DrumReaper]

I agree that Ford should improve panel fitment in some areas. After driving an M4 I believe BMW should really improve their interior switches. IMO they were terrible. For me it's one thing to have a fitment issue (bothersome and annoying on that odd occasion), but far worse to have a function issue. Especially a function issue on a simple interior switch concerned me a lot with the M4 I test drove. I might have to hit that switch more than once every time I drive the car. No thanks. Also, if the M2 or M4 BMWs had a decent sounding engine with 8 cylinders I might be interested. I just don't enjoy listening to a straight 6.



I agree wholeheartedly on the engine durability concerns. Reading alarmist forum posts every day are not helping me. Meanwhile mine is working great. Whether I will have the guts to keep it past the warranty coverage remains to be seen.

I humbly disagree. To state paint and gaps are merely aesthetic and not functional is misleading. How many bare metal cars do you see produced? I’ve seen autos leak because of poorly adjusted panels not allowing the weatherstripping to fully do its purpose. Paint serves a dual purpose and just as your faulty switchgear was a legitimate gripe, so are paint and gap issues.

I also have to humbly call BS. You have stated multiple times that it’s all about the performance for you but in this post you acknowledge the potential horror of an engine failure and give the fear some legitimacy... seems righteously indignant to state it’s all about performance when you’re scared you have a maypop under the hood. So I guess it’s good as long as it works as intended right?... well the same goes for paint and gaps as well.

To say it’s justifiable to pay for shoddy workmanship just cause it has a engine is just the same as saying it’s okay to pucker your butt cheeks and take a paid screwing. You first. :headbonk:

 

[Austinj427]

Perhaps it has more to do with water based environmentally friendly paint that we have these days. Based on some posts, it seems to be across many manufacturers.

A while back when I had my RS there was a guy on there who worked in the paint industry. Basically when they were required to switch to water based paints the quality dropped significantly.

Hell for the price some here pay for a full PPF protection you could completly repaint the car with thicker better paint and get painted on stripes if you so desire!

This is my thought process. I can't bring myself to spend $2k on a good PPF ever 5-7 years when I could have the hood and bumper resprayed for $1k.

 

[MrCincinnati]

This is my thought process. I can't bring myself to spend $2k on a good PPF ever 5-7 years when I could have the hood and bumper resprayed for $1k.

Same. Within the first few months of owning the car I noticed how thin and soft the paint was and realized it wasn’t a paint job worth the price of protection (for me). So I plan to, at some point, get it wrapped or sprayed. A custom pearl Avalanche grey?! Hmmm

 

[Minn19]

A while back when I had my RS there was a guy on there who worked in the paint industry. Basically when they were required to switch to water based paints the quality dropped significantly.



This is my thought process. I can't bring myself to spend $2k on a good PPF ever 5-7 years when I could have the hood and bumper resprayed for $1k.

Part of my job is fleet management for my company (dealing with accidents) and I had a buddy that owned his own restoration business. Unless you have a friend (or do it yourself) that does body work/painting 1k isn't going to get you much of a quality job for a hood and a bumper. Maybe not even just one of those.

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