Mustang future....

[Allegro]

Who’d buy a Mustang built outside of North America, more specifically, outside the USA?

Are you talking U.S.A. or North America? All the Dodge Challengers are built in Canada. Up until last year, Camaros were all built in Canada. With all the perceived changes in vehicle production coming up at Ford, they could well move Mustang production to Canada, Mexico or, heaven forbid, China.

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[fpa1974]

Are you talking U.S.A. or North America? All the Dodge Challengers are built in Canada. Up until last year, Camaros were all built in Canada. With all the perceived changes in vehicle production coming up at Ford, they could well move Mustang production to Canada, Mexico or, heaven forbid, China.

My Mexico built (with EU components) Fiesta ST is miles ahead in initial quality (paint, fit and finish, panel fitments etc) my US built GT350. Take it for what it is worth but when a car that costs 3 times less is the better built one something is wrong with the picture :shrug:

 

[car crazy]

I went to the Ford website. They currently make 6 cars. It quickly makes sense why they would pair this down to 2.

1) Fiesta - I rarely if ever see one on the road. Sales are likely not great.
2) focus - I see some of these around
3) Fusion - I had no idea they still made this car.
4) C-Max - What is this? I've never heard of it and never seen one on the road.
5) Mustang - enjoying good sales but likely not like it was in the past.
6) Taurus - I see more GT350 on the road than Taurus. I'm guessing sales are extremely poor.

There you have it. 6 cars will become two.

Toyota only has two popular cars - Corolla and Camry. I think Honda only makes two cars - Civic and Accord.

 

[oldbmwfan]

My Mexico built (with EU components) Fiesta ST is miles ahead in initial quality (paint, fit and finish, panel fitments etc) my US built GT350. Take it for what it is worth but when a car that costs 3 times less is the better built one something is wrong with the picture :shrug:

I also have a Fiesta ST and a GT350, and I tend to agree. I have a friend at FP who had the line manager give my car an extra look and it got scrutinized for panel alignment, etc. as it came off the line ... and it's still not perfect. I love it anyway, but it's not like the US workers are doing magical things that no one else can do.

The Fiesta has had no US future for years; the next model is not being built to world specs and will be Europe and select other OUS markets only.

Taurus will probably morph into something bigger/ more luxurious targeted at China market (where GM, via Buick, is killing Ford).

Fusion, as noted, is 3rd- or 5th in segment and probably mostly fleet sales at this point - easy to rent a Fusion.

Mustang and Explorer and F150 generate huge piles of cash for the company, and there will be smaller things like Edge that start to get fancier treatments to make up for the gaps caused by the sedans going away.

Given what you say you don't see, I'm guessing you live somewhere a little more rural; there are 3 non-ST Fiestas (sedan and hatches) parked on the street within 4 blocks of my house, and I see Fusions everywhere ... but a huge proportion are hybrid Taxis! I just rode in a C-Max (Lyft ride) last week. They are cool little people-movers, but the Energi (hybrid) variant is useless because the batteries consume most of the luggage space. Too bad.

 

[JAJ]

...6 cars will become two...

Six will become one, actually, because the new Focus will be a crossover, not a sedan.

Our family fleet has seven vehicles including three Focuses owned by my kids. They're a great entry-level vehicle, and that's the challenge for Ford. If Ford can't get young people into a Ford early, how will they ever get them into one later?

 

[Socalrugger]

My daily driver is a GT350. My wife drives it everyday taking my daughter to and from school/activities/groceries etc. all these other moms look at my wife like she is from another planet without knowing she has the 10 times of reflexes and concentration of their husbands (no disrespect). My wife tells me how much more focused the car forces her to be and how much more in control she now is of the road and the car. She says she appreciates all the feedback car gives her and the complexity of all the moving parts and how

And I am so lucky to have a wife like that, I dont know what I would do without her

Where did you find this one? Shes a keeper!

My wife absolutely hates mine....says she feels claustrophobic in it.!!

 

[Ronp]

See electric/ hybrid point above. At some point the "expensive gas = small car" equation becomes meaningless. The non-CUV Focus will still be a world car and sellable everywhere, so if that equation does rear its head, Ford could bring it back to the US very quickly. It's really only the Fusion/ Mondeo (and maybe Taurus) that is dying for good, and that has never been super competitive in class vs. Accord/ Camry.

It's a shame that the Fusion finally became a very good car right before its demise, I guess.

IMO they need to keep the Fusion and then it makes better sense. This is going to put them in a bad competitive spot just like when they got rid of the Ranger in the US. They have a furniture guy running the company right now.

 

[likeaboss]

It's unbelievable how short sighted Ford is being. This is exactly what they did in the late 90's and early 2000's, then when gas skyrocketed they had to jump through hoops to keep the company alive while they built up a fleet of cars attractive enough to draw in buyers. They even had to mortgage their trademark (blue oval) to raise cash at one point.

Now they want to throw away all that effort. Well, they deserve what they'll inevitably get.

Keep in mind they are still making more types of cars in different markets. Worse case they can bring some of them over if needed. I still think they should have a midsize sedan in the US, rear wheel drive with an AWD option and high performance variant. It would be a good way to bring a historic name like Falcon back.

I wonder if they might turn Ford Performance into an AMG and let them make their own cars outside of just the Ford GT?

 

[Patio208]

Six will become one, actually, because the new Focus will be a crossover, not a sedan.

Our family fleet has seven vehicles including three Focuses owned by my kids. They're a great entry-level vehicle, and that's the challenge for Ford. If Ford can't get young people into a Ford early, how will they ever get them into one later?

Ecosport can fill the entry-level role nicely.

 

[oldbmwfan]

IMO they need to keep the Fusion and then it makes better sense. This is going to put them in a bad competitive spot just like when they got rid of the Ranger in the US. They have a furniture guy running the company right now.

Sure they do. Ranger is coming back, by the way, even though they don't expec to sell many. The platform will support the Bronco which will make them huge money.

I'm sure they've run business cases on all of these things. If you're not selling a bajillion full-size sedans, you probably aren't recouping your investment in design and tooling. Doubly so if you aren't supporting multiple platforms. I don't know what Ford builds from the Fusion platform, but I know the Fusion can't fit the 3.5L ecoboost that is in everything else Ford makes (and that's why there is no hi-po Fusion option). On the other hand, the Camry platform supports the Highlander, the Lexus RXwhatever, the ES350, and probably other models I'm forgetting. It's all about scale.

This is interesting but outdated - shows Fusion, as of 2011, in the middle of a tight pack of sedans.

However, if you look at recent one-month sales data on the top 20 best selling vehicles (March 2018), you see:
- Ford holds three spots and all are trucks or crossovers (F-series pickups, Escape, Explorer)
- Top three CARS are places 5, 7, and 10
- 14 of 20 are NOT cars!

 

[H6G]

The CAFE Numbers Game......

Looking foward to details on plant closures and job losses now that this announcement has been made. Interesting fleet Ford will now have and I'm trying to wrap my head around what their CAFE numbers are going to look like.

CAFE standards in the absense of a coherent gas tax policy effectively forces those who drive less, to subsidize those who drive more, with the greatest subsidy going to those who drive the most......... This is hardly a recipe to reduce gasoline consumption and traffic congestion.

Over 40 years of failed CAFE regulations have contributed to the financial ruin of the domestic auto industry, and the loss of thousands of jobs. European and Asian automakers have been consistently successful in the absense of such nonsense as CAFE. European and Asian governments also don't force taxpaying homeowners, consumers, and workers to subsidize drivers with gas taxes too low cover the cost of roads.

Here in the USA, we don't care how much gasoline is used so long as cars are rated at 60mpg........ This lunacy can only make sense in Washington.

 

[Tank]

The same people who would buy BMWs built outside of Germany?

Are you talking U.S.A. or North America? All the Dodge Challengers are built in Canada..... With all the perceived changes in vehicle production coming up at Ford, they could well move Mustang production to Canada, Mexico or, heaven forbid, China.

The Mustang is the most identifiable US made car, ever. The one that started the affordable performance market.

Yes, there are cars and manufacturers aligned with their country of origin but I’m saying the Mustang is as American as Bald Eagles, Baseball, Apple Pie, George Washington and putting men on the moon.

I’m also saying I would never buy another Ford product if they outsourced the manufacturing of Mustangs to foreign countries. Not because of any hatred or
bigotry towards other countries, it would be because of the loss of an American-made icon.

 

[oldbmwfan]

Looking foward to details on plant closures and job losses now that this announcement has been made. Interesting fleet Ford will now have and I'm trying to wrap my head around what their CAFE numbers are going to look like.

As mentioned I don't think CAFE will take too big a hit, but I'm not sure. I'll bet we'll start to see more energi models across the line on bigger stuff, plus a couple full EVs.

As for job losses ... I recall seeing an announcement that the new Ranger/ Bronco will be US-built, so that probably uses up a lot of the domestic capacity that was going to other products. TBD, I guess.

 

[H6G]

Are you talking U.S.A. or North America? All the Dodge Challengers are built in Canada. Up until last year, Camaros were all built in Canada. With all the perceived changes in vehicle production coming up at Ford, they could well move Mustang production to Canada, Mexico or, heaven forbid, China.

Like plans to build its Focus cars in China, rather than Michigan or Mexico???

 

[oldbmwfan]

Like plans to build its Focus cars in China, rather than Michigan or Mexico???

Chinese tariffs working in their favor ... too bad.

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