Mach 1 for '21MY

[v8hgt]

Out of interest, where did the tremec part of the rumour originate from? A10 is easy to understand as it’s all off the shelf OEM mustang parts but tremec harder. The gt350 version isn’t geared right for a street coyote, and isn’t designed for high torque, although I understand the tuners have proven it works on boosted cars for ages. The magnum which does handle torque and could be geared right with the correct gear set and final drive would require investment in a new prop shaft being manufactured etc. It’s hard to see this investment being made for a limited run model sold at a relatively low price point. If it happens my money would be using the gt350 spec parts and a suitable final drive to gear it down a little.

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[Twin Turbo]

The Tremec info was first "leaked" on the CJ Pony Parts video, which has now been deleted. Their source seemed convinced this was part of the package. The video didn't state it would be the only transmission, which is why I'm still hopeful the 10-speed auto will also be offered.

I'm no transmission expert, but if the Mach 1 is more focused on the drag strip than the road course, I'm guessing the Tremec can withstand hard and fast shifting better than the Getrag MT-82?

 

[shogun32]

The Tremec lives in the Camaro SS just fine. I doubt anyone *really* wanting to drag race is going to buy a manual transmission car unless it's a 3 speed COPO-like config. Tremec has all kinds of gear ratios to choose from. I don't see that being a hindrance.

Ford Racing has 4.1 gears in the catalog if you really want to go overboard on a drag build. I don't see how 3.73 won't suffice from a factory build perspective.

 

[S550Boss]

As for the 4.8..........rumor has it that it never existed or, if it did, it was dropped when the 3rd Gen Coyote hit its emissions/MPG targets with the port and direct injection.

A "new" V8 has been discussed in Ford labor negotiations before... it existed at one point and may still be in the queue for consideration. And several U.S States (with more joining) have cleaner emissions standards than the Federal standard. Some additional technology will be needed for the Coyote or a successor at some point and it would be interesting to know what that is. Updated injection, cylinder head configuration, cylinder shut-off, hybrid, lower displacement, more powerful computer, etc. are all possibilities. Even if we never see a major change to the existing Coyote in this decade, it would still be interesting to know what remains on the shelf for contingencies.
Also those "emissions/MPG targets" are US Federal and may or may not be the upcoming tightened up California standard. And in both cases they are definitely not as strict as the new European standards, which has already cost power in the export versions. The world is tightening up around us.... it's not a question of IF, it's a question of HOW and WHEN.

 

[S550Boss]

The Tremec lives in the Camaro SS just fine.

It's not the same Tremec.

Also, it woud be interesting to see the new double-clutch behind the Bullitt's engine instead of the A10. Sharp as the A10, it, the new DCT shifts far faster and is far more responsive with it's advanced array of sensors. And the acceleration would be considerably improved. And this would be more competitive worldwide for the export market, where more sophistication is expected, and where a large portion of Mustang's profits come are derived. Much of the world has already moved to this type of transmission.
The A10 is a $1595 option... would $2k be reasonable if the 480-HP Mustang Mach 1 accelerated to 60 in 3.5 seconds, and had near instant power out of the turns?

 

[shogun32]

The A10's problem is shitty-ass programming.
I don't see the DCT being an option for a dollar under $4000.

No the Tremec in the SS is not the same exact model as the Tremec in the GT350. Somebody was under the impression the Tremec wasn't up to the torque which is total bunk - the SS engine produces more torque than the Coyote. QED the Tremec will slot behind the Coyote with it's eyes closed.

 

[Twin Turbo]

A "new" V8 has been discussed in Ford labor negotiations before... it existed at one point and may still be in the queue for consideration. And several U.S States (with more joining) have cleaner emissions standards than the Federal standard. Some additional technology will be needed for the Coyote or a successor at some point and it would be interesting to know what that is. Updated injection, cylinder head configuration, cylinder shut-off, hybrid, lower displacement, more powerful computer, etc. are all possibilities. Even if we never see a major change to the existing Coyote in this decade, it would still be interesting to know what remains on the shelf for contingencies.
Also those "emissions/MPG targets" are US Federal and may or may not be the upcoming tightened up California standard. And in both cases they are definitely not as strict as the new European standards, which has already cost power in the export versions. The world is tightening up around us.... it's not a question of IF, it's a question of HOW and WHEN.

Oh, I agree Coyote will need to adapt if its to remain an option, not just for Mach 1, but for the GT in general. I would imagine cylinder deactivation may be a good option to go for but, as you indicate, there are many routes they can take. Whether we'll see any of those in Mach 1 though, remains to be seen. If not for the '21MY, then certainly for the all-new model coming for '23/'24MY.

 

[w3rkn]

The A10's problem is shitty-ass programming.
I don't see the DCT being an option for a dollar under $4000.

No the Tremec in the SS is not the same exact model as the Tremec in the GT350. Somebody was under the impression the Tremec wasn't up to the torque which is total bunk - the SS engine produces more torque than the Coyote. QED the Tremec will slot behind the Coyote with it's eyes closed.

I'd still get the DCT @ $4k....

 

[w3rkn]

Oh, I agree Coyote will need to adapt if its to remain an option, not just for Mach 1, but for the GT in general. I would imagine cylinder deactivation may be a good option to go for but, as you indicate, there are many routes they can take. Whether we'll see any of those in Mach 1 though, remains to be seen. If not for the '21MY, then certainly for the all-new model coming for '23/'24MY.

Mach 1 will have ISG torque boost.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Mach 1 will have ISG torque boost.

I thought I knew most automotive acronyms, but ISG?

 

[Jimmy Dean]

I thought I knew most automotive acronyms, but ISG?

integrated starter generator. thinking basically a generator/battery setup powered by regenerative braking? used to increase torque off the line. There was talk of similar systems on the trucks except using hydraulics to capture brake energy and reapply it for off-idle torque while towing back about 20 years ago.

so when you apply the brakes you are just turning a generator, which applies the needed resistant torque. and when you release brake and hit the gas the generator switches polarity into an electric motor to apply increased torque back to the wheel to make up for lower idle torques of the ICE.

I think.

 

[EcoVert]

There are rumors the Mach1 could have a coyote hybrid system.

 

[Twin Turbo]

There are rumors the Mach1 could have a coyote hybrid system.

Problem is, those rumors probably started here

 

[martinjlm]

There are rumors the Mach1 could have a coyote hybrid system.

Problem is, those rumors probably started here

Just lining up a few data points....

A couple weeks before the infamous “Mach 1” press conference at NAIAS, Ford stated that there would be a hybrid Mustang sometime around 2020. The hybrid Mustang would be part of a police package, but also a retail version. The police version makes good sense, especially for a radar / pursuit car. What do they spend most of their time doing? Sitting and idling. A hybrid would sit and “idle” with the engine off.

When Ford spoke about the “delay” of moving to S650, they also said that the Mustang Hybrid would be delayed until 2021. Lines up well with end of Bullitt and start of Mach E GT.

Ford Explorer has a 5.0L / 10AT hybrid available. Aviator has the same setup, but with a plug-in hybrid. So the brunt of the system integration work has already been done.

Just stacking these data points, I would suggest that Mach 1 will be a 5.0L 10AT hybrid.

The only thing that shakes my confidence in this would be the idea of a Tremec MT in the lineup. If that is the case, the only logical hybrid setup would be a 48V ISG mild hybrid. Around the same time Ford was delivering the original “Mach 1” press conference they had said some things at tech conferences I attended that indicated they were not really interested in 48V tech. They seem to have changed their minds on that recently, but a 2021 Mach 1 Hybrid would have had to be in development long before this change of mind.

EDIT: Explorer / Aviator have a 3.0 TT / 10AT. F150 HEV will probably have the 5.0L / 10AT

 

[Twin Turbo]

All good info, thank you.

One point though, neither Explorer nor Aviator have the 5.0 Coyote.....their top engine is the 3.0 Ecoboost 6-cylinder........but are, as you indicate, mated to the 10-speed auto with the hybrid tech. It's long been stated that the Ecoboost 6 "doesn't fit" in the current S550 engine bay (although I've never seen or heard that officially from Ford) so I'm still confident Mach 1 will be a V8......and I'm keeping 'em crossed that it does incorporate some form of hyrbid tech, but if that's the case, it'll be the first time Ford mates the V8 with such tech.

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