Lund Tune & Twitchy Throttle

[Hornet]

Hey All,

I know there are a couple of us here with Lund tunes (@Bourkey!) but i'm wondering if anyone else has run into the issue of their throttle being twitchy?

I contacted them about it and the guy who did the tuning or at least sent it to me, Brandon, is adamant that it's only because of the HP increase. Basically 'Race' mode is now undrivable on the streets as it's so twitchty that at low speed even the most minor of touches causes it to surge on/off as if i've let on/off the throttle.

I thought it was just me but asked them about it and was told the above and "The difference even 30HP makes is something you can certainly feel" & "I hate to say it my friend I haven't altered the pedal sensitivity in the calibration. Its all OEM. This is more torque you're feeling in the powerband due to the car actually making more power throughout the curve."

Now personally, i call bullshit. I've had custom tuned with my previous car and the throttle of course was more responsive but it wasn't undrivable like this. Even in normal mode i've experienced it. The throttle in normal mode is now more sensitive than it was with stock in Race mode. So to me what's happened is that the throttle input must have been changed and i know it can be done since the drive modes that the car comes with stock allow this...i.e. race mode a 25% input on the throttle may translate to 50% by the ECU to increase the 'response' where as 25% on normal mode = 25% (just pulled those figures out of my arse but you get the idea).

I found a thread on here from 2 years ago which someone said the same thing and I believe the outcome was that Lund did play with the throttle tables...

So has anyone else had this issue like me and were you able to get them to fix it? I can tell the car makes a bit more power but it's amplified by the stuffery to the throttle tables which makes it seem more extreme imo. I'm happy with the tune otherwise and if i could have the original tables back i'd be happy. I used to drive around in race all the time so it's not like i'm not used to a more sensitive throttle either...I just feel like i'm getting dismissed despite having a genuine concern about my tune.

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[Grom13]

Hey All,

I know there are a couple of us here with Lund tunes (@Bourkey!) but i'm wondering if anyone else has run into the issue of their throttle being twitchy?

I contacted them about it and the guy who did the tuning or at least sent it to me, Brandon, is adamant that it's only because of the HP increase. Basically 'Race' mode is now undrivable on the streets as it's so twitchty that at low speed even the most minor of touches causes it to surge on/off as if i've let on/off the throttle.

I thought it was just me but asked them about it and was told the above and "The difference even 30HP makes is something you can certainly feel" & "I hate to say it my friend I haven't altered the pedal sensitivity in the calibration. Its all OEM. This is more torque you're feeling in the powerband due to the car actually making more power throughout the curve."

Now personally, i call bullshit. I've had custom tuned with my previous car and the throttle of course was more responsive but it wasn't undrivable like this. Even in normal mode i've experienced it. The throttle in normal mode is now more sensitive than it was with stock in Race mode. So to me what's happened is that the throttle input must have been changed and i know it can be done since the drive modes that the car comes with stock allow this...i.e. race mode a 25% input on the throttle may translate to 50% by the ECU to increase the 'response' where as 25% on normal mode = 25% (just pulled those figures out of my arse but you get the idea).

I found a thread on here from 2 years ago which someone said the same thing and I believe the outcome was that Lund did play with the throttle tables...

So has anyone else had this issue like me and were you able to get them to fix it? I can tell the car makes a bit more power but it's amplified by the stuffery to the throttle tables which makes it seem more extreme imo. I'm happy with the tune otherwise and if i could have the original tables back i'd be happy. I used to drive around in race all the time so it's not like i'm not used to a more sensitive throttle either...I just feel like i'm getting dismissed despite having a genuine concern about my tune.

I have similar issue mine is Tickford tuned but mine is mainly when I first get in the car hot or cold and drive through the gearbox for the first time after car has sat for a while , only lasts for the initial drive through the gearbox then it’s fine . I seriously know what your talking about if mine did this all the time I would be pissed , I have found that if I leave mine in normal mode to cycle through the first gearbox cycle and then put it into sport + it’s much better , which tells me it is definitely throttle sensitivity. Cheers

 

[Burkey]

Hey All,

I know there are a couple of us here with Lund tunes (@Bourkey!) but i'm wondering if anyone else has run into the issue of their throttle being twitchy?

I contacted them about it and the guy who did the tuning or at least sent it to me, Brandon, is adamant that it's only because of the HP increase. Basically 'Race' mode is now undrivable on the streets as it's so twitchty that at low speed even the most minor of touches causes it to surge on/off as if i've let on/off the throttle.

I thought it was just me but asked them about it and was told the above and "The difference even 30HP makes is something you can certainly feel" & "I hate to say it my friend I haven't altered the pedal sensitivity in the calibration. Its all OEM. This is more torque you're feeling in the powerband due to the car actually making more power throughout the curve."

Now personally, i call bullshit. I've had custom tuned with my previous car and the throttle of course was more responsive but it wasn't undrivable like this. Even in normal mode i've experienced it. The throttle in normal mode is now more sensitive than it was with stock in Race mode. So to me what's happened is that the throttle input must have been changed and i know it can be done since the drive modes that the car comes with stock allow this...i.e. race mode a 25% input on the throttle may translate to 50% by the ECU to increase the 'response' where as 25% on normal mode = 25% (just pulled those figures out of my arse but you get the idea).

I found a thread on here from 2 years ago which someone said the same thing and I believe the outcome was that Lund did play with the throttle tables...

So has anyone else had this issue like me and were you able to get them to fix it? I can tell the car makes a bit more power but it's amplified by the stuffery to the throttle tables which makes it seem more extreme imo. I'm happy with the tune otherwise and if i could have the original tables back i'd be happy. I used to drive around in race all the time so it's not like i'm not used to a more sensitive throttle either...I just feel like i'm getting dismissed despite having a genuine concern about my tune.

Quite honestly, they don’t play with the table. What they’re telling you is correct.
It’s not just the extra power that makes it feel the way it does but also the fact that they’ve removed pretty much all of the clutch protection/other useless torque management stuff. In a nutshell, Ford have some stuff going on in there to make it so that your grandmother can drive the car with ease. Removing it wakes the beast.
So, whilst they haven’t altered the pedal to TB ratio, what’s happening is that on the Ford tune, the car is still being asked for the same TB opening for a given pedal input, BUT, x y and z are getting in the way and telling the TB not to hit the desired target....
You CAN get them to fix it.
I had the same problem. Jon Lund Jnr. jumped in and sorted it out.
To give them a better picture of what you want, try putting the car in wet/snow mode and see how it feels. If what you want is somewhere between that and where it is now, that will give them an idea of what you’re aiming for.
Out of curiosity, the cars you’ve had tuned before, did they use torque-based tuning like the Mustang?

 

[msweet]

I told Lund to dial up the throttle response lol.

You don't have a pedalmax/pedal commander or the like do you?

 

[Hornet]

I have similar issue mine is Tickford tuned but mine is mainly when I first get in the car hot or cold and drive through the gearbox for the first time after car has sat for a while , only lasts for the initial drive through the gearbox then it’s fine . I seriously know what your talking about if mine did this all the time I would be pissed , I have found that if I leave mine in normal mode to cycle through the first gearbox cycle and then put it into sport + it’s much better , which tells me it is definitely throttle sensitivity. Cheers

That's odd that it's when cold. I gather due to fueling etc while engine warms?? Mine is definitely all the time

I told Lund to dial up the throttle response lol.

You don't have a pedalmax/pedal commander or the like do you?

Na, nothing like that

Quite honestly, they don’t play with the table. What they’re telling you is correct.
It’s not just the extra power that makes it feel the way it does but also the fact that they’ve removed pretty much all of the clutch protection/other useless torque management stuff. In a nutshell, Ford have some stuff going on in there to make it so that your grandmother can drive the car with ease. Removing it wakes the beast.
So, whilst they haven’t altered the pedal to TB ratio, what’s happening is that on the Ford tune, the car is still being asked for the same TB opening for a given pedal input, BUT, x y and z are getting in the way and telling the TB not to hit the desired target....
You CAN get them to fix it.
I had the same problem. Jon Lund Jnr. jumped in and sorted it out.
To give them a better picture of what you want, try putting the car in wet/snow mode and see how it feels. If what you want is somewhere between that and where it is now, that will give them an idea of what you’re aiming for.
Out of curiosity, the cars you’ve had tuned before, did they use torque-based tuning like the Mustang?

Not sure what type of tuning it was tbh. It was for a Focus XR5 Turbo if that helps. I was running 220kw 480NM at the wheels on that FWD beast. Gosh it was fun.

What you're saying makes sense. So basically the car is just 'raw' now with no 'safety' measures to tone it down. I was wondering if i'd need to just live with it which i could do - Stock normal mode was just a little too dull for me, and race was perfect, so if on the tune regular was somewhere between those two i'd be happy, with race a bit more again.

Thanks for the insight there Burkey. Now that i've got some more knowledge on it I can go back to them with better info. I just find it hard that they wouldn't have just said 'oh we didnt change throttle mapping, but apart from the extra HP you're feeling we've also removed a lot of the torque management etc' then i could have gone from there sooner!

 

[Burkey]

That's odd that it's when cold. I gather due to fueling etc while engine warms?? Mine is definitely all the time



Na, nothing like that



Not sure what type of tuning it was tbh. It was for a Focus XR5 Turbo if that helps. I was

Thanks for the insight there Burkey. Now that i've got some more knowledge on it I can go back to them with better info. I just find it hard that they wouldn't have just said 'oh we didnt change throttle mapping, but apart from the extra HP you're feeling we've also removed a lot of the torque management etc' then i could have gone from there sooner!

That's odd that it's when cold. I gather due to fueling etc while engine warms?? Mine is definitely all the time



Na, nothing like that



Not sure what type of tuning it was tbh. It was for a Focus XR5 Turbo if that helps. I was running 220kw 480NM at the wheels on that FWD beast. Gosh it was fun.

What you're saying makes sense. So basically the car is just 'raw' now with no 'safety' measures to tone it down. I was wondering if i'd need to just live with it which i could do - Stock normal mode was just a little too dull for me, and race was perfect, so if on the tune regular was somewhere between those two i'd be happy, with race a bit more again.

Thanks for the insight there Burkey. Now that i've got some more knowledge on it I can go back to them with better info. I just find it hard that they wouldn't have just said 'oh we didnt change throttle mapping, but apart from the extra HP you're feeling we've also removed a lot of the torque management etc' then i could have gone from there sooner!

I think the issue is that they (and other tuners) tend to assume a certain level of knowledge of their customer. I guess the flipside is that they run the risk of offending the really hardcore if they treat them like rookies...
It may even be that the manual responds differently to the changes than an auto. I honestly don’t know.
What I can tell you for sure is that on the stock tune, if I booted it at under 3k in third, sometimes the car would do almost nothing for what felt like a full second, maybe more. Even when it did respond, it was pretty sluggish.
I don’t have any logs to prove it but I’m 100% convinced that this is all part of Fords grand plan. Slow opening of the TB, emissions compliant tip-in yada yada. Do the same in your Lund tuned car, no such BS. You command full throttle, you get full throttle. No emissions friendly tip-in, just all the fuel and air it needs to make the thing GO!
Best of luck with it.

 

[Hornet]

I'm just going to give up and go with a different tune when i change more i think. I dunno. Maybe i'm stupid bc i don't know tuning well or the lingo. Here is my email to and the response...

Maybe i need to respond, i want similar to stock behaviour for each of the drive modes, just with the power output of the tune...


My email

Hi Brandon,

I've done a bit more investigating and perhaps it's more a case of me misunderstanding and using the wrong things to describe - It may be more of a case that various 'safety' measures have either been turned down or off, rather than throttle mapping adjusted.

Is that done as part of the tune? i.e. something like a torque management system is toned down or some sort of similar thing that is designed to make the car more 'derivable' for average joe? I know there has to be some stock, or else how could the car have different drive modes

If that is the case are you able to adjust that in the tune please to bring some of these back in a bit? If i can give you a guide of how much i'm after then the best way i can explain is using each mode on stock tune as a benchmark.

Standard on Lund

• Somewhere between where stock and sports mode was on stock tune

Sports on Lund

• Where race mode was stock on stock tune

Race on Lund

• Where current Sports is on lund tune

Rain/Snow on Lund

• I haven't tested it out, and tbh i don't use this mode ever, but i guess if you can make it somewhere between where rain/snow and standard were on stock tune then that'd be great

Regards,

Lund Response

Joshua, I'm not fully understanding here. We modify many things in regards to torque management so the car will make more power and continue to do so without it being held back. This isn't detrimental to the car. Are you essentially wanting to have the car drive like stock?

 

[Burkey]

I'm just going to give up and go with a different tune when i change more i think. I dunno. Maybe i'm stupid bc i don't know tuning well or the lingo. Here is my email to and the response...

Maybe i need to respond, i want similar to stock behaviour for each of the drive modes, just with the power output of the tune...


My email

Hi Brandon,

I've done a bit more investigating and perhaps it's more a case of me misunderstanding and using the wrong things to describe - It may be more of a case that various 'safety' measures have either been turned down or off, rather than throttle mapping adjusted.

Is that done as part of the tune? i.e. something like a torque management system is toned down or some sort of similar thing that is designed to make the car more 'derivable' for average joe? I know there has to be some stock, or else how could the car have different drive modes

If that is the case are you able to adjust that in the tune please to bring some of these back in a bit? If i can give you a guide of how much i'm after then the best way i can explain is using each mode on stock tune as a benchmark.

Standard on Lund

• Somewhere between where stock and sports mode was on stock tune

Sports on Lund

• Where race mode was stock on stock tune

Race on Lund

• Where current Sports is on lund tune

Rain/Snow on Lund

• I haven't tested it out, and tbh i don't use this mode ever, but i guess if you can make it somewhere between where rain/snow and standard were on stock tune then that'd be great

Regards,

Lund Response

Joshua, I'm not fully understanding here. We modify many things in regards to torque management so the car will make more power and continue to do so without it being held back. This isn't detrimental to the car. Are you essentially wanting to have the car drive like stock?

My first question, is the car manual or auto? (I’m presuming manual given your lack of chat about the firmer shifts etc).
It may jus the easier to communicate that you want the first 25% of pedal to slow down by 10% (for example).
I have this gut feeling that “because Murica” (and therefore auto), there’s a good chance that these guys haven’t actually spent 12 months or so learning the behaviour of a manual car, with all of its intricacies, only to have it completely altered with all the changes.
Even when I queried them on the almost complete lack of (expected) torque of my Whipple, they said that if I wanted more torque, I’d need be needing turbos....Which is both the exact response you’d expect from someone who just pushes the pedal on the right side whilst waiting for the tranny to find the right gear AND someone who’s never stomped the loud pedal on a blown 5.0 engine in 4th gear at low rpms and expected INSTANT plumes of smoke...
Hint: twin turbos are NOT going to do that.
Honestly, I feel like there’s something missing in the translation from US to Oz at times.
Stick with it.
Lund are 100% committed to customer satisfaction. They just might not understand what that actually entails at this point.

 

[Hornet]

Yeah, car is manual mate. It's just so strange to me that i can't comprehend it. I might not know the proper terminology but i'm a car guy and i know how they feel etc. I thought i was describing it well, and surely if you're tuning a car you understand what someone is saying about it even if they're not using the exact terminology????

 

[Hornet]

What do you think of this Burkey?


Hi Brandon,

I want the car to continue making more power, but on say normal mode i want it held back a little on light throttle applications. Maybe if i can describe as i'd like the first 20% of throttle to be toned down a little so it isn't so 'fierce' at light throttle inputs, and at >20% throttle is when it starts coming in harder with minimal or no torque management. This would allow me to easily maneuver at low speeds in the heavy traffic we get in parts of Australia without the throttle going hard at the lightest touch....It isn't an issue of it being "detrimental to the car", but rather unsuitable to the Australian road conditions.

The power is great, and i love it, i just don't want it to come on as quickly as it does in normal mode. I'd also like the same applied to Sports and Race mode, where they'e slightly less and less torque management on each mode until Race mode which can be ballistic with no nannies or management, and instead maximum power like it already is.

 

[Burkey]

What do you think of this Burkey?


Hi Brandon,

I want the car to continue making more power, but on say normal mode i want it held back a little on light throttle applications. Maybe if i can describe as i'd like the first 20% of throttle to be toned down a little so it isn't so 'fierce' at light throttle inputs, and at >20% throttle is when it starts coming in harder with minimal or no torque management. This would allow me to easily maneuver at low speeds in the heavy traffic we get in parts of Australia without the throttle going hard at the lightest touch....It isn't an issue of it being "detrimental to the car", but rather unsuitable to the Australian road conditions.

The power is great, and i love it, i just don't want it to come on as quickly as it does in normal mode. I'd also like the same applied to Sports and Race mode, where they'e slightly less and less torque management on each mode until Race mode which can be ballistic with no nannies or management, and instead maximum power like it already is.

In principle, you’ve worded it quite well.
How they interpret it...no idea.
A good analogy might be my car.
When it was NA and Lund tuned on e85, the throttle was hectic but I got used to it.
Then, I found the pedal “sloppy” on 98. Bury the pedal, disappointment ensues.
The only real difference between the two being the amount of timing being shoved into it for a given rpm, which to me seemed far more noticeable at the lower rpms.
Ergo, the e85 tune is just more eager to get on with it, despite sharing the same throttle mapping as the 98 (93) tune.
You’re basically seeing the result of a car that really wants to do what you’re telling it to do, rather than one that’s being told to “ease up there tiger”..
Brandon did the tune on my Whipple. I found him to be pretty good as far as communication goes.
Don’t sweat it. They will sort it out.

 

[Hornet]

Thanks mate, appreciate the feedback. I really do love the power and how instantly it reacts, but fark it's a bit too much on regular mode lol. I'm pretty used to it, but i want the car to be 'derivable' if the Mrs gets in it or i'm having bit of an off day. I like Race being unforgiving, it kinda makes sense. But i'll be damned if i ever am forced of use rain mode when it's actually raining.

 

[v8hgt]

Ahh the Lund pedal commander issue again. An easy way to make the car feel more powerful is to give it a non linear throttle opening. Probably great for street drag racing and keeps customers impressed. However on twisty slippery roads it’s unpredictable. I went with AED for my tune and specifically requested a linear throttle map table. In the old days of cable throttle and carbs, everything was linear, these days there is infinite adjustability. This is actually a good thing as the turbulence caused by the throttle butterfly means you don’t want total linear opening. For small pedal travel you need a proportionally bigger opening. Some folks with their race tunes tend to go a bit too far with this ability.
What throttle body are you using. Some of them such as the gt350 body can be very hard to tune for and can be a bit tippy. Ie feel a bit flat until 3500 rpm at which point it can feel a bit perky.
Torque management is standard in 1st and 2nd gear. Best remove that entirely from the map.

 

[Hornet]

Stock TB. Everything's stock power wise

I got a response back. And back to square one

Lund Response
Sadly it doesn't really work this way my friend. It's like asking for a cup of Ice water but with no Ice lol. You can always load the stock tune for cruising around and then load our tune if you plan on going racing.

 

[baevid]

Don't let Brandon push you off like that. I didn't have a twitchy part throttle for around town but one that downshifted too early at highway speeds. It took 4-5 revisions before we got it right.

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