Knock / retard timing - bad first tank of gas or boost leak

[mbreinin]

1 week old? bring it back to the dealer.

Yeah, tomorrow.

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[Tune+]

Update: did some runs tonight in the interstate. 4th/5th gear.

3/4 throttle: 17.7lbs and it spikes on occasion to 14.4 af/r then it reigns it back in to about 13.9. When this happens I get a harsh ping/knock. From my previous knowledge this af/r should be closer to 12 on full boost. Why it's targeting 13.9 at part throttle is beyond me.

WOT throttle: 16/17lbs and 11.6 af/r. Health happy.

Put a half tank of 93 in when it was almost empty. Not solving the issue.

Thoughts?

I tried checking the clamps on the piping, can't reach the two intercooler clamps atm

The reason you are getting knock when you are doing 3/4 throttle is because you aren't past the threshold for power demand fueling. You are on the brink of it so it's going to command as close to stoich as it can.

When you get on the throttle 100%, everything is fine and that is because it is in power demand fueling.

This can be changed in a tune, but if you are driving on the factory setup it is going to ping/knock at 3/4 throttle if you are making that much boost and revving it high. I honestly don't know why you would ever need to do a 3/4 pull. If you are passing someone just get in it 40-50%, if you want to go fast floor it!

 

[ultimate warrior]

The reason you are getting knock when you are doing 3/4 throttle is because you aren't past the threshold for power demand fueling. You are on the brink of it so it's going to command as close to stoich as it can.

When you get on the throttle 100%, everything is fine and that is because it is in power demand fueling.

This can be changed in a tune, but if you are driving on the factory setup it is going to ping/knock at 3/4 throttle if you are making that much boost and revving it high. I honestly don't know why you would ever need to do a 3/4 pull. If you are passing someone just get in it 40-50%, if you want to go fast floor it!

so what you're saying is Ford fucked up?

and they should have used a MAF instead?


its pinging all over the place. ill drop by the dealer and driver another one and see if the numbers are the same as mine.

btw should i even bother resetting the ECU (if thats even possible)?


im coming off of import turbo cars that are 100% smooth and drive-able no matter where your foot is or what your intention is. its 2016 and ford apparently cant match early 90s import technology. got it.


with the car on ramps i could reach the bottom two clamps and gave them some snugging, and just went over the entire pressure side of the system checking tightness and looking for visible leaks.

lol at me tightening turbo components before heading out for a saturday night.

 

[Tune+]

so what you're saying is Ford fucked up?

and they should have used a MAF instead?


its pinging all over the place. ill drop by the dealer and driver another one and see if the numbers are the same as mine.

btw should i even bother resetting the ECU (if thats even possible)?

No, what I'm saying is your driving habits are odd and doing a half tank of 87 with a half tank of 93 isn't going to get the premium fuel that Ford recommends.

That is still only 90 octane when mixed like that. I highly recommend doing two things. Getting a full tank of 93 in the car, and picking up a set of plugs to ditch the factory spark plugs.

http://goo.gl/gKzce4

Click there for some plugs already setup for your car.

 

[ultimate warrior]

No, what I'm saying is your driving habits are odd and doing a half tank of 87 with a half tank of 93 isn't going to get the premium fuel that Ford recommends.

That is still only 90 octane when mixed like that. I highly recommend doing two things. Getting a full tank of 93 in the car, and picking up a set of plugs to ditch the factory spark plugs.

http://goo.gl/gKzce4

Click there for some plugs already setup for your car.

there was .5 gallon of 87 in and i added 8.5 of 93 premium. so i did my due diligence.

still why is the car making 16-17lbs of boost at 14.4 af/r.

that shit is insane - and also broken.



if i didnt think id lose my warranty Id have that paypal money headed straight to you. havent spent enough time shaking things lose yet.


ill check out the plugs thanks.

 

[mbreinin]

For the record, mine never pinged at any throttle level with a factory tune. It has had two tanks of 87 in it in a year....dealer fill and once I accidentally filled it with 87.

Mike

 

[ultimate warrior]

For the record, mine never pinged at any throttle level with a factory tune. It has had two tanks of 87 in it in a year....dealer fill and once I accidentally filled it with 87.

Mike

thanks Mike.

I tightened everything up, still getting that wacky AFR.

Might go drive one at the dealer and compare.

Would anyone who is bone stock be willing to do a 3/4 throttle, 4th gear pull from 2500/3000 rpm and keep an eye on the af/r vs boost?

thanks!

 

[Bullitt]

My car has been having a similar issue in the past few weeks, but I have a tune and intake. My car never did this when stock. I'm amazed that you're having troubles this soon. I had 87 in mine from the dealer when I first got it too but it still ran fine. In the owners manuals it says you can run 87, you just lose 30-40 hp. Even on 87 the car should just give you less power and maintain it's smoothness. If I were you I'd go straight to the dealer and if they can't fix it the first time around I'd see if there is any way to get a different one.

 

[Juben]

This is the first time I've heard/seen of this. You've spoken several times about maintaining the warranty, so with that said, use that warranty and take it to the dealership. Tell them you're hearing the pinging and what you're noticing with the AFR and ask them to reflash the ECU. Also, if you have access to somewhere that sells unleaded race gas (search Google around your area), then throw 3-4 gallons of 100 octane in it and see if that causes it to stop.

I just thought of this too. Mine makes a knocking/pinging noise too, but it's the DI system. It almost sounds like a knocking sound, especially under light throttle. Under heavy throttle, the engine makes enough noise to drown it out. I'd almost bet cash that that's what you're hearing.

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

 

[ultimate warrior]

My car has been having a similar issue in the past few weeks, but I have a tune and intake. My car never did this when stock. I'm amazed that you're having troubles this soon. I had 87 in mine from the dealer when I first got it too but it still ran fine. In the owners manuals it says you can run 87, you just lose 30-40 hp. Even on 87 the car should just give you less power and maintain it's smoothness. If I were you I'd go straight to the dealer and if they can't fix it the first time around I'd see if there is any way to get a different one.

Thanks. I'd take it today but I'm out of town for work for 7 days starting tonight.

However I might goto a dealer and drive another one to see if it's 'just mine' or not.


I get the concept Adam was saying of the vehicle switching into open loop/running more off the aggressive map. I not only have pinging at 4th/5th gear, I'm also getting it in 3rd gear with less aggressive boost (but still boost) - I can hear it missing, and then if you keep at it hard enough it will ping louder and noticeably pull back the timing. There is a progression to the issue and it exists across 2nd gear and up. Cruising neighborhood at 25, give it half throttle, spools and you hear ping as boost builds. It sounds like I'm driving a 250k mile v6 mustang with decades of carbon deposits.


Anyone who's bone stock still if you could do a 3rd, 4th, or 5th gear pull at 3/4 throttle from about 3k through full boost and somehow watch/log the af/r vs boost it would be super appreciated. I'd also like to know what the AF/R is at WOT as well.

Thanks for everyone's tips so far.

 

[ultimate warrior]

This is the first time I've heard/seen of this. You've spoken several times about maintaining the warranty, so with that said, use that warranty and take it to the dealership. Tell them you're hearing the pinging and what you're noticing with the AFR and ask them to reflash the ECU. Also, if you have access to somewhere that sells unleaded race gas (search Google around your area), then throw 3-4 gallons of 100 octane in it and see if that causes it to stop.

I just thought of this too. Mine makes a knocking/pinging noise too, but it's the DI system. It almost sounds like a knocking sound, especially under light throttle. Under heavy throttle, the engine makes enough noise to drown it out. I'd almost bet cash that that's what you're hearing.

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

Yeah it's noisy, but it gets drowned out by actual pinging as the boost builds.

It's not just noise that's the issue - it's the fact that I leave a stoplight, it shifts to second add half throttle, shifts to 3rd hear pinging add a bit more throttle and LOUD ping and it aggressively pulls back timing like I lifted my foot off the throttle for a split second and it will do this multiple times till I let off.


I've got Sunoco 100 on tap local but I think my issue is separate from that. If I had some parts on it screwing with the a/f I could see this but I'm all stock atm.

 

[ultimate warrior]

Off to a great start at Ford.

Drove another Ecoboost and the AF is dead on with mine. What it isn't doing is loudly pinging dramatically like mine does.

Stopped by service and told the service guy about my issue, refilling with 93.

His response?

"That car wasn't designed to run on 93 octane. Put 87 in instead."

"Run ethanol free fuel. They sell it at WaWa."

Christ.

I'm dropping it off when I get back from my trip. Maybe I'll take the service rep for a ride.


Is it possible ford didn't change the tune for the base model 3.15 diff? With it being geared longer it's under more load per gear. The one I drove today at the dealer had the 3.31.

 

[neodark]

Time for a new dealership. Where I bought mine said the same about using 87. Haven't been back.

 

[m4udin]

Also, if you have access to somewhere that sells unleaded race gas (search Google around your area), then throw 3-4 gallons of 100 octane in it and see if that causes it to stop.

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

Sunoco's website will show if they have 100 octane near you, I'm paying $8.99 a gallon for it in south FL.

 

[ultimate warrior]

Thanks for all the suggestions. It sucks racking your brain over something that should be 100% out of the box.


I skipped the Sunoco 100 today, and I'm going to run the 93 in the tank down and do what that twerp suggested - fill it with 87.

Hopefully if I do that it will throw a code, and be verifiable by the dealer.

The other option is to find someone local (Florida) with a data logger. Will any logger work with the 2016 or do I need a 2016 Cobb?

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