Is Ford lacking on performance?

[Fatguy]

No, but people do on the way home.

And you got maybe 1/10th faster do to that. Not everyone wants to daily a strped car just to get .1 faster than the guy with AC in that one rare chance you may race. In the 80's and maybe 90's weight of options matteted. Now, not so much. If you're fretting if you should get nice seats because you may go a fraction of a second slower then you shouldn't get a new car. You should get a roller.

1/10th matters in a race. My guess is that few people here compete in any way shape or form. Still fewer that have a chance of winning an event or trophy. If you have like me and some others, then you would know what uncompromising performance is. And it’s not about taking your loaded GT to a drag strip and just flooring it and getting a time. For me it’s about beating the other guy who is trying to beat you. Weight matters, parasitic loss from an a/c matters, that 2 or 3 hundred pounds of useless crap you paid through the nose for matters when you compete and the other guy wins but just barely. Then the superfluous crap gets taken off.

Quite frankly I think most of the current generation of muscle car owners are just posers that want to feed their egos coming up next to lesser cars and gunning the throttle but never having to prove anything. And don’t even get me started on those heavy frying pan wheels!

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[Fatguy]

Having a completely stripped ZX2 without A/C or PS, I have to say, I will NEVER do that to one of my mustangs unless it's an all out track-only car. Only reason I did it on the ZX2 was because its such a low power car that it thrives on lightweighting. With a car like a mustang, you don't really need that as much

The weird thing is that back in my time having something like a plain racing seat with no padding or upholstery was a status thing. I meant you were serious. One guy I knew that would win and make it into the newspapers DD one of his race cars to the machine shop where he worked. Man those were the days. I used to deliver tires to Paul Tracy back then. But today’s wheels! :tsk:

 

[UAmach1]

Yeah, I felt like that. When I was young stupid in my teens and 20's. Then I grew up, got a family, and a bad back. Now I see no logic in that. It's DUMB to daily your race car when it's barely more than a steioped car with seats. Try taking a family trip with no AC, but hay you can go a tiny bit quicker when changing lanes driving from PA to FL.

 

[bootlegger]

When people say "the Camaro is the better track car" the response is always "yeah, but Mustang is a better everyday driver". So now when people say "I want comfort options in my car" the response is "you don't need that stuff at the track" :shrug: even though the "track only" car has them for people who want to drive their "track only" car whenever they feel like it? Ok.

OP started a thread about pure performance, and argued when people pointed out that the PP1 was designed to be more daily driveable. Now OP is complaining about not having a comfort/show item. If one is devoted to the most performance on the track, leather electronic heated and cooled seats are the last thing they would worry about. In fact, these seat options probably add 30-50lbs.

 

[Clink]

....if you want a stripper car now you aren't going to get it from the factory.

Those bitching about AC seats aren't you just going to get a Base model anyways since it's all about HARDCORE racing in your eyes?

 

[UAmach1]

....if you want a stripper car now you aren't going to get it from the factory.

Those bitching about AC seats aren't you just going to get a Base model anyways since it's all about HARDCORE racing in your eyes?

If I only cared about "hard core" then they probably shouldn't be getting brand new at all since they have to just remove most of what it has.

 

[howlins550]

OP started a thread about pure performance, and argued when people pointed out that the PP1 was designed to be more daily driveable. Now OP is complaining about not having a comfort/show item. If one is devoted to the most performance on the track, leather electronic heated and cooled seats are the last thing they would worry about. In fact, these seat options probably add 30-50lbs.

Show item? The only comparable car I've driven to the mustang that I'm ordering is the ZL1 which retains all of its daily life comforts and adds the additional items needed for the performance. The only argument about the pp1 is that it gets stomped by the equally equipped Camaro. Obviously I could strip everything out and add this or that to increase performance, but when a comparable car that performs the way it does, while retaining every feature it doesn't make sense to do all that work for a couple tenths of a difference

 

[Clink]

If I only cared about "hard core" then they probably shouldn't be getting brand new at all since they have to just remove most of what it has.

Right that's my point, 99% of owners don't take their car to 100% or need 1/10 a second on a track...

Nothing wrong with wanting a cooled seat option for $1,595, and it doesn't make you a poser either.

 

[Fatguy]

Show item? The only comparable car I've driven to the mustang that I'm ordering is the ZL1 which retains all of its daily life comforts and adds the additional items needed for the performance. The only argument about the pp1 is that it gets stomped by the equally equipped Camaro. Obviously I could strip everything out and add this or that to increase performance, but when a comparable car that performs the way it does, while retaining every feature it doesn't make sense to do all that work for a couple tenths of a difference

Order the aero option and you and me will have no quarl. Also I didn’t check the sticker when I scoped one out but don’t pay extra for the red brakes. Those are hideous!

 

[howlins550]

Order the aero option and you and me will have no quarl. Also I didn’t check the sticker when I scoped one out but don’t pay extra for the red brakes. Those are hideous!

what exactly is the aero option? as for red brakes, i thought those are only on the GT350R?

 

[Fatguy]

BTW guys: I’ll stand by my comments that I would not daily like a ZL1 as those areo bits would surly get hit or vandalized sooner or later. So my argument is admittedly not absolute. Back in the day I would not daily a car with a roll cage either. I don’t even know if that is legal anymore. So my performance philosophy is not absolute. You guys get that much.


I thought Howlins550 was ordering a ZL1 but it was really a Stang so I edited these posts and just kept the ZL1 photos because it was too much hassle to copy and past and I can’t edit it anyway.

 

[rick81721]

The ZL1 you said you were ordering. I posted some picks of one I looked at:

And check out the areo spoilers on the front:

And – Check out the scoops as they are just large holes with coolers inside (Mustangs don’t need cooling right?). One rock and you will be replacing those quick! Now, juxtapose this with the closed up grills on the PP on the Mustang. This ZL1 just screams “race car” and “race track” and the only thing missing is the duct tape. That hood! Fully functional and not some “gay” little grills by the headlights. Real functional everything! You are not going daily driving with this car for sure. Anyone just looking at it thinks it is for the track and track alone.

The hood:

Assuming the aero features are functional but it looks ridiculous.

 

[Norm Peterson]

When people say "the Camaro is the better track car" the response is always "yeah, but Mustang is a better everyday driver". So now when people say "I want comfort options in my car" the response is "you don't need that stuff at the track" :shrug: even though the "track only" car has them for people who want to drive their "track only" car whenever they feel like it? Ok.

I'm not at all sure that it's the same questioners in those two scenarios. Probably not even the same responders. On the one hand, you've got the "luxury with performance" people wondering why the "performance first" crowd isn't looking at the luxuries as little-cost extras that you can choose to not use; on the other it's the "performance firsts" asking why you'd need those luxuries at all.

I suspect that most people these days are a little too accustomed to having in their cars things that were strictly luxury well within what I can remember - or flat-out unavailable. And more than a little too unwilling to "go without", like they'd be unreasonably denying themselves if they did.


30 years ago I would not have opted for A/C (didn't, actually, and Jim - you might be interested). But that was when I had far better tolerance to heat than I do now and cars weren't as "tight" as they are now. For that second reason, I actually run the A/C (with heat) for windshield defogging purposes at a wet track day at least while sitting in grid with the side windows mostly closed. Usually I remember to turn it off somewhere during the out lap . . . not that on a wet track the cost of about a second a lap for leaving it on makes any difference at HPDE. Even today, I'd rather my cars not be equipped with anything I'm not even going to want to use.


Norm

 

[Fatguy]

Assuming the aero features are functional but it looks ridiculous.

Personally I dig it. But that is a weekend car for me. And it is all about performance!

 

[Norm Peterson]

Nothing wrong with wanting a cooled seat option for $1,595

For about that kind of money, I'd get a second set of wheels for the track tires instead. Something I'd actually enjoy getting (hard) use out of.


Norm

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